fish prices

[John Murray]

Anybody of you West Coast fisherman know what's currently open and what the prices for chinook are?Hope the westerlies aren't kickin up to bad. John

[crasmu19]

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/mrp/salmon/

90 Chinook new possession limit.

Here (visit site above) you will read about the actions taken during the season from Washington to Cape Falcon. Most recent one is August 1. Effective August 3, 2012. It will continue until August 21, 2012 or changed by in-season action. The possession limit for coho remains at 35 coho (fin clipped adipose fin) per open period.

The "Open Period" is defined at Friday through Monday. What this works out as is you get iced up and run out to the grounds on Thursday. The grounds may be 25 to 32 miles from your harbor. Fish Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday or shorter period, then have 24 hours to deliver from the close of the period. This means for most of the fleet or at least some, if they have to fish the four days to get 90 fish, they then must deliver their catch on Tuesday. Sometimes you catch them in one day and sometimes you have to scratch to get them. Weather may only allow two or three days but in Washington since June 19th almost every day has been 5-10 or 15-20 right up to today as of this posting which calls for 5-15. So you deliver on Tuesday, schuk ice and relax, etc. until Thursday and do it over again. Many have their own markets and will take the fish in the large totes and do their delivery Tuesday and Wednesday.

New action is to increase the possession limit to 90 Chinook per vessel per open period.

It has been increased from the 7/25/12 limit of 60. That limit of 60 was an increase from the limit of 50 as of July 20, 2012 per the July 18, 2012 Action Notice.

More than what you asked for but just sayin....That is what happens in the area mentioned. Draw your own conclusions why the number is increased. It may be the salmon fishing is slow, or the tuna are in close and a good price is being paid, and some of the boats also crab/longline etc. and move to their best options available.

[Salty]

How the hell did you guys end up with everyone with the same limit? This kind of deal would kill the serious troller in Alaska. The only way a troller makes a living in Alaska is by making way more than the average. It works because a lot of trollers are part timers, semi-retired, have other fishing income, are just learning, enjoy the trolling without having to make much, etc. Setting an equal share limit would kill the serious troller trying to make a living

On the other hand 90 kings a week for 4 or five weeks in August plus unlimited coho, chums, pinks, etc. here in Alaska would be a nice deal. On the other hand some of our fleet will catch 90 a day for a week next week when our August Chinook season opens. Personally, I prefer the competition, and the rewards for excellence. I would quit trolling if we ever went to an equal share deal.

While I am a progressive democrat, I am not into rewarding mediocrity at the expense of creativity and excellence. That is the wonderful thing about trolling in SE Alaska, you do not get rewarded for just showing up, putting in hours, past catch history, or owing a permit. You get rewarded for catching and excellent handling this season.

[SilverT]

Salty,

It probably wouldn’t be a good thing for Alaska for the reason you mention. If I understand it correctly, the Washington fishery has evolved a little differently than Alaska. There are approximately 160 permits remaining for Washington. Very few use the permit full-time to make a living and most are like you say, semi-retired or have other income. The bulk of the Washington quota is caught in the May / June fishery and it is wide-open at that time. It is generally good fishing and the boats that are large enough to stay out on the open ocean for several days can do quite well. During the summer, X number of kings/open period, limited to 5 days per week, allows the smaller boats and folks you described a shot during the months that are conducive to day trips and small boats. It also allows the government 2 days to evaluate the catch, knowing that no more fish are being caught while they are counting, and then reset the quota for the next opening.

When the State issued a massive # of permits in the 70’s, a lot of fish were caught, el nino hit and decimated local runs, the State stepped in and basically closed commercial fishing for years and bought back most of the permits, the few that remained were allowed so few fish that it didn’t pay to keep a large boat sitting at the dock. Many folks bought a small boat so they could have a go at the few fish they were allowed to catch when they opened things back up. Washington doesn't have a hand-troll permit, which is what a good percentage of the permit holders would fit into a little better. If I remember right, there were a couple of years that they got 3 days to fish all year. Then they really jumped up and were allowed two weeks. That is why there are so many small boats in the fishery and why they have a fairly large voice in how the quota is allocated. Someone out there could probably give a better history.

In Washington, we are only allowed to keep fin-clipped coho. For every 10 coho we bring to the side of the boat on a very good day, we have to release about 8. If we catch 150, we get to keep around 30. That makes running 60 coho spoons a complete waste of time, energy and money when coho are 5-6 lbs each, the price is $1.00/lb and we burn $100 in fuel. Hatcheries here only clip a percentage of the coho (less every year in my opinion). The tribes largely decided that clipping their fish was ridiculous, as the sporties and trollers would get to keep every one of their fish they caught. Many commercial trollers don't even bring coho to port. The point is that this helps to create a fishery that primarily targets kings. Kings are everything to Washington trollers.

The seiners and State have successfully limited trollers to the coast, eliminating them from participating in an effective chum fishery near terminal areas. Additionally, in August, Trollers are not allowed to keep chum in the Ocean near the entrance to the Strait of Juan De Fuca (about the only place in the ocean down here that they are concentrated). I wonder who pushed for that. That primarily leaves kings and pinks. Few trollers are going to target pinks. In addition, they usually only run on odd years. That leaves kings as the primary targeted species by trollers. Apparently, Washington trollers with small boats grew weary of the large boats catching the bulk of the king quota and then disappearing into another fishery, leaving them with a limit of 8 kings per open period during August when kings are generally large, plentiful and close to shore.

I did show up last week, put in my hours, had a mediocre, if not dismal catch and I owe. I went out believing I was creative, and returned to port with very few fish with which to display my excellent handling. If I don't catch my 90 kings this opener, they stay in the pot, so it's not like our government has completely stepped in for me here and given me what I deserve (hasn't been a GOP governor here in Washington in 32 years). I'm not sure that our current quota arrangement is the best system, but the voters of Washington State have spoken. I know for a fact that the system we have here has negatively impacted some of the larger vessels. That and the fleet history is how I believe we ended up with everyone having the same limit. It's hard to keep all of the people happy all of the time.

Side note: I spoke with a gill-netter on the Columbia and he was paid $3.00/lb for kings last week, which he said was high for him. Our dock prices are $5.00+/lb. for troll. Hope you have a great season.

Lane

[actionalaska]

Maybe it's time for a study of past strikes in similar fields like mining, farming etc to see what the strikers faced as far as pressure from the wholesalers that caused the strike to be ineffective.
I'm also wondering about extrapolating profit margins from different buyers based on ex-vessel prices vs. retail market prices. There might be more to it than the price of a whole fish per pound at Pike Place in seattle. Who owns the fish retail counter at pike place in Seattle? How much of the summer iced king ends up in freezers waiting for the market demand to support a sale of that fish? Which wholesaler supplies Costco's seafood? what percentage of frozen iced fish is sold to restaurants vs retail raw fish sales? How much ends up being value added product like smoked, canned, jerky etc.? What does the domestic market demand support as far as volume of fresh unfrozen retail king salmon? Why does halibut offloaded in Dutch Harbor bring the same price per pound as Halibut offloaded in Sitka, AK when Sitka is vastly closer to the domestic market? Why are gillnet dogs worth about the same as troll dogs? Why are seined pinks worth just as much as gutted, gilled, bled ocean bright pinks? I think that knowledge about the market, the supply chain, the supply cycle, the retailers that are purchasing product from the wholesalers,the market demand based on season, (international holidays, religious holidays, summer demand vs. winter demand etc.) and cost associated with moving product to retail markets from different locations are the types of things that need to be understood completely before a strike will be effective. There needs to be a realistic goal of ex-vessel price increase based on all these factors. Essentially, the striking force needs to know when to stop squeezing, and in what areas the market supports room for the ex-vessel price to improve for fishermen. Essentially, the strike needs to have a realistic goal of a price move so that there is a goal that is realistic to both sides of the battle. The processors and shipping companies are also buying expensive fuel, and paying expensive insurance premiums, paying workers by the hour is expensive. Maintaining a processing plant can't be cheap. But there are certainly things that are "off" in the industry, like how halibut is worth the same at the dock in Dutch as it is in Ketchikan. With that said I think there is plenty of room for a higher ex-vessel price on fresh troll caught king salmon, but exactly how much room, and what would a price that is good in both FT. Bragg and in Yakutat be? Why settle for $4.00 with all the work and dedication that a task like this would take, when the market would support something like $10.00 for summer kings. What if the most the market would support is only $5.00. What if because of shipping the market supports $10.00 in FT. Bragg, but only $5.00 in yakutat. Would the guys in FT. Bragg be willing to give $2.50/lb to the guys in Yakuktat so that everyone can sell at the same rate because the guys in Yakutat stood by the strike when the mortgage was due, the credit card companies were calling, and the fridge was empty same as the guys in Ft. Bragg? What if cost averaging was already happening by companies like Ocean Beauty, North Pacific Seafoods etc. with different labels on their operations to bring the ex-vessel dock price in multiple locations close to the same rate? Like in sitka there is SSS that is North Pacific Seafoods, which has plants all around the pacific under other labels. Would the entire Pacific troll fleet be willing to strike and risk losing everything they have worked for for their entire careers, boat, home, lifestyle, permits, and put your family through the kind of stress a strike would cause over an insignificant price jump across the board. What if the troll fleet would end up getting less in northern ports, and more in southern ports because of shipping costs? valid things to be considered if a strike is going to be effective. We all have a horse in the race, but knowing how far the finish line is going to be is a handy piece of info to have to know how fast to run the race.
Knowledge is power in a situation like this, and education about the market and the whole situation doesn't come quickly, I can guarantee you that the processors aren't interested in opening up their books and letting the golden goose (if there is one) out of the pen by revealing what the margins are in every market on every species, but that's what's needed to make a movement like this effective.

[Kelper]

Too many trollers have invested in large boats to ever go for any type limit on kings. Even getting them away from 2 summer openings to smaller openings designed to keep from flooding the market would be darn near impossible. I haven't invested in a large boat, so I'm sure that I see things a bit differently. Right now I'm happy scratching up what I can, when I can... even though part of me wishes us smaller boats who sell the same day could pursue king salmon a bit longer than we currently get.

I hope the prices are higher for the second opening.

[Abundance]

I have a bigger boat, but not a large investment, or a big time fish catcher. I have my days, but if we had a trip limit it wouldnt wreck my career. It might even give me more fish over the season, as the big no weather to rotten, no place to far boats tend to mop up the quota before I get a break in the weather or find the fish. I have never really begrudged that, as they are earning their fish and seeing a return on their investment, as it should be, but I wouldnt say no to something that would likely benefit me. The thing that I picked up on from Lanes beautifully written post that bothered me was how they were getting messed with on the chums and cohos. I of course dont know the situation, but I think they should be able to get a fair chance at all of the species of fish. If we didnabout t have other species of salmon to make our seasons we would have switched to king catch limits a long time ago, just as a matter of survival. The price might manage to stay a little higher, with kings coming in at a trickle rather than a flood.

[Salty]

Wow, really thoughtful informative comments and thoughts here. Thanx, broadened my perspective for sure.

[crasmu19]

Latest from "below" SE on West Coast (Washington to Cape Falcon)

8/15/2012 ACTION NOTICE: NOAA Fisheries in consultation with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, representatives from the commercial troll fishery, and the Pacific Fishery Management Council, has taken in-season action to adjust the regulations in the commercial troll salmon fishery in the area from the US/Canada Border to Cape Falcon.
ACTION TAKEN: The commercial troll salmon fishery between the US/Canada Border and Cape Falcon will open to commercial troll salmon fishing for the open periods as described in the “2012 Federal Regulations: West Coast Salmon Fisheries” with the following changes to the open periods and open period landing and possession limits: The open periods will be Friday through Tuesday of each week. The open period landing and possession limit for Chinook salmon is increased to 120 Chinook per vessel per open period. The open period landing and possession for adipose fin-clipped coho is increased to 40 coho per vessel per open period. This action becomes effective at 00:01 on Friday, August 17, 2012 and will continue through Monday, September 17, 2012 or until changed by inseason action.
RATIONALE: The current rate of landings of Chinook are not on pace to catch the full quota prior to the scheduled end of the fishery. The adopted regulations were scheduled to reduce the open periods to Friday through Monday and increase the coho open period limit to 40 beginning on August 24. At the current pace of the fishery, the restriction to four day open periods was not needed, and to simplify the transition, the 40 coho limit change was moved to this current open period.

[salmon4u]

I think that as long as trollers are unable to organize and stand up for themselves they'll be taken advantage of. Increasing expenses and regulations will continue to reduce the productivity of the Alaska fleet until most will make far less than a living wage from trolling and it'll become more of a sport.
With the exact amount of product specified before a king opening, a unified fisherman's organization could shop for buyers, taking bids for the product before anyone untied from the dock. The producers could be involved in bargaining for an acceptable price. What process takes place now to set the "dock price" to fisherman? are fisherman consulted on this price setting?
how about if trollers started giving the excuses.. "well, the price for fuel had doubled, the price for tackle went up, and my healthcare cost increased so I'm sorry but king salmon will have to be sold for $8/lb this year"...

[crasmu19]

8/29/2012 ACTION NOTICE: NOAA Fisheries in consultation with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, representatives from the commercial troll fishery, and the Pacific Fishery Management Council, has taken in-season action to adjust the regulations in the commercial troll salmon fishery in the area from the US/Canada Border to Cape Falcon.

ACTION TAKEN: The commercial troll salmon fishery between the US/Canada Border and Cape Falcon will open to commercial troll salmon fishing for the open periods as described in the “2012 Federal Regulations: West Coast Salmon Fisheries” with the following change to the open period landing and possession limits: The open period landing and possession limit for Chinook salmon is increased to 150 Chinook per vessel per open period. The open period landing and possession for adipose fin-clipped coho continues at 40 coho per vessel per open period, and the open periods will continue to run from Friday through Tuesday of each week. . This action becomes effective at 00:01 on Friday, August 31, 2012 and will continue through Monday, September 17, 2012 or until changed by inseason action.

[lone eagle]

Sport guys landed two 20 pounders, offered $5.00 a pound by a buyer and came looking for a commercial guy to sell for them- $50 to me.....What a bunch of shit....just go out and buy your licences and your annuals and safetys , moorages etc etc.....Don't mess with the Troopers and get commercial guys screwed

[Abundance]

I have heard stories of people doing things like that, but the penalties are severe if caught. I would never touch such an offer. Have many of the guys started fishing for tuna yet? I heard the price is extraordinary this year for tuna, but it's all rumor. The season for cohos is wrapping up in southeast and most of the summer visitors have gone back south. I personally hung it up a few days ago to get ready for various fall and winter fisheries, but a number of locals are getting a decent late spurt of fish. I know a few guys that will be fishing the terminal areas into October, so some more fish will be caught before the kings open up again the 11th. Catch rates are holding at a relatively meager fifty-sixty cohos a day according to ADF&G, but I got $2.00 lb for 7-, $2.20 for 7+, with very few under 7. The average value per coho was $17 my last delivery, about double what they were worth in July. Fall chums are basically done, but a late spurt could always happen. the gillnetters caught 5,000 chums and 10,000 cohos by Dixon Entrance last week, so there is a number still out there. The few chums that we were catching were the smallest of the season, averaging around 6 lbs, and so added up poundage slowly. I really must say that I appreciate the West Coast trollers input on here. It adds a lot of perspective and insight into whats going on in the fishery. I hope you are filling your boats with kings or tuna.

[Kingbonker]

I know that some of these comments and ideas are meant to help us all . But as a phallic power troller the hopes of filling my boat in July on the fair weather grounds or any other place is the reason I made the investment to move from hand to power.
Sounds to like Casey can't hang with the big dogs (phallic powertrollers ) and is trying to level the playing field with more off the wall ideas.