Threading Herring- Correctly

[sean_h_5]

Hello all, I live in Ketchikan/Pennock Island, this is my second year hand trolling out of Ketchikan from my 17 ft run-about. With one season under my belt I am well aware of the importance of threading herring correctly. I was wondering if someone out there in the fleet would pitty me enough to explain the process to me. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[Salty]

Essential ingrediants:

1. Good salted herring with all the scales still on and clear eyes.
http://www.salmonuniversity.com/ol_brining_herring.html
2. Good herring threader with a tip that the loop on your threading leader and hook fit into.
Some come with a nice flattened section about 2" in which is nice for filleting the tail end.
I had a partner whine for hours when his deckhand threw his "favorite" overboard so you should have several.
3. Your favorite bait hook on a 28-72" leader with a loop on the flasher end.
4. Take your herring and stick the threading needle in the vent and fillet the tail. After a while you fillet the tail and remove it in almost the same motion.
5. Carefully slip the threader through the vent, through the body cavity, through the gills and out the mouth. Put the threader in a secure spot.
6. Carefully pull the leader through the herring and position the hook so it fits securely into the body of the herring with the hook, single or treble, coming out of the vent facing downward. I usually have either treble or single hooks with an anchoring barb or stiff wire to slip into the backbone.
7. Take your noseclip and securely fasten it to the chin of the herring over the mouth and nose.

Here is a good primer on rigging a cut plug if you are using rods. When using rods commercially I went to rolling whole herring as they hold up better than cut plugs.

Anyway this is what I do. But I am not a great herring fishermen as I made a living trolling from 1982- 2000 without ever running bait.

[Salty]

http://www.salmonuniversity.com/ol_htrh_pc1_index.html

This is the site of the cut plug primer that I forgot to post in the preceding message.

Good luck and if it works for you buy me a drink when I am in Ketchikan this July. Or better yet, post me a private message when they start biting.

[sean_h_5]

Thanks for the info Salty. I greatly appreciate it. I did have one question on the method you explained to me. That is - do you fillet and remove tail of the herring from the vent back with the threader itself? leaving flaps on either side of the bait hook? or do you use a knife for this task. The threader I have now is just a long needle with a slot to catch the loop of the leader. Last year I chopped my herring in half right behind the dorsal fin and then threaded my leader up through and out the mouth, then I would stick one of the prongs of the treble hook in the meat by the backbone and the other two would stick out on the sides. Has anyone heard of that method before? It caught fish but i'm just looking for better ways. I also experimented with easy baiters. Does anyone thread whole herring?

[Salty]

Sean,
They sell threaders that are flattened about 2" above the point for the purpose of filleting. You can do it with the round threader. What I do is carefully file the round threader down so it is flat for a little over an inch about 2 inches above the point. You fillet the herring with the threader. You are left with two skin flaps that you insert the hook between.
This is the whole herring method. I have seen the method with the herring chopped off. I believe the above works better. But, it is always fun to experiment.
My best luck with bait biters has been with the blue ones.

[sean_h_5]

Alright, I understand the process now. Thank you. I'll email you this season and let you know which one i'm finding works best.
Good Fishin'
-Sean

*Anybody else out there have any words of bait fishing advice for a eager handtroller?
-leader length, flasher color etc..

[sean_h_5]

Well here is a question I have been wanting to get answered.
Where does everybody buy their herring? the packs of sport bait are very expensive.

[kalitan97828]

Sean,

Google "How to bait a herring" and you will get a good method using cable baiters. In my estimation the nose clip they recommend are superior. You can get the cable baiters and the nose clip from England Supply.

Carl

[sean_h_5]

Carl,

Hey, thanks for the tip. The site you pointed out was very helpful. You said you can get them at England supply.. is that a web site?
Anyways, I appreciate the help, hopefully I can begin to drag these herring correctly through the water. I'm sure I'll see a difference in my catch rate once I master the task.

Good Fishin'
-Sean

[kalitan97828]

Seam,

You can get your herrring cheaper from the producer. Most of us salt them in a fine ( mildcure ) salt. The scales set up better and they will last longer in the water. Note: the object is not to see how long you can drag a herrring. Think of the herring as your employees and you want good attractive ones.

Englund Supp;y is a chain of gear stores along the west coast. The cable baiters are expensive--about $3.25 each and the nose clips are about $13.50 per 100. Google up Englund Supply for numbers. I work with Astoria or Newport.

There is a great book about two brothers who used to hand troll out of Ketchikan that would be a great sourcebook. I cannot recall the name, maybe someone will come back on that one. Basically they fished the edge of the kelp and the little eddies around each point. If you are out deep where the power trollers are operating you are trying to compete with an arm tied behing you. If you are on the beach you have water that no one else is straining.

Another thought--watch the charter fishermen. The areas and methods they fish can be very instructive.

Good Luck,

Carl

[Salty]

Wow, all good advice here except for one. If charter operators knew how to catch king salmon like you need to commercially they would buy a permit. It never seems to amaze me how a whole fleet of guides can be working half a mile away from where the best bite is. Plus they are working on a whole different set of needs than we are. It is not a good idea for a commercial troller to follow guides around. On the other hand it is a sin to give up your drag because the guides come and anchor on it. Let them have their spots and don't let them push us out of ours.
I always did better handtrolling for Chinook with rods than I did with gurdies. Carl is exactly right about getting right into the kelp with those rods. One of my most memorable days power trolling was with 8 fathoms of wire on a July 1 opening. The handtroller fishing rods in the same pot hole loaded his fish box by noon and had to leave. He was way ahead of me at that time. Later he told me how he did and I told him what I had when he left. It would have been cruel to tell him what happened after he left.
The most effective technique for getting Chinook to bite in shallow water around Sitka is to roll a herring very slowly right in front of them. But, I have not figured out how to transfer that technique to the heavier leader and hooks we use power trolling. Plus it seems to work best at about chum troll speed and when I run the drag at that speed I risk getting shot.
I just salted a bunch of herring yesterday with the blueing, the powdered milk, the salt, and the de-chlorinated water. MMMMMM. It is April, time to stop wishing and start fishing.

[Salty]

I prefer employees without scales but then Carl is an ex school administrator and may have developed some weird tastes due to the trauma.

[sean_h_5]

Carl.. Salty, Thanks for the advice. I have some herring curing instructions from the salmon university so that shouldn't be a problem. I was able to get a hold of Englund Supply and get the last of the 5'' and 4'' cable biters. They were out of the clips but I have an order in with them for those. As far as trolling with a hand tied behind my back, I completely agree. I have my boat set up with poles and gurdies as you can see in my pictures. I've been cranking twenty five lbs and usually drag 20 fathoms. It is a hard task trying to stay on the drag when your dwarfed with boats towering above you. Not really sure if its young and ambitious or just young and dumb. But all of it is just a learning experience I suppose. Carl.. you said its cheaper "from the producer" .. is there an outlet for troll herring or is it just if you know someone inside the herring fishery..

-Sean

[kalitan97828]

Seam,

My wierd tastes come from watching Salty land fish while I drive around corroding my stomach drinking coffee and discussing his ancestry.

By processor I ment Silver Lining or Phillips. I use mostly red pac herring with some green for the longer cablebaiters. I most often put a # 6 hook on a swivel, slide it over the shank of the cable baiter then sqeeze the swivel in a vice a little so it doesn't want to slide back off. that seems to increase my catch ratio a little==what I need is something that will increase my catch ratio a lot....maybe dynamite in the shape of a herring....

Carl

[Salty]

Carl,
Stoop to what I do and blatantly follow your high line son around.

[sean_h_5]

Thank you to everybody that replied to my post. I now think that I can start attempting to drag these herring in a semi-correct manner. Hopefully in ten years or so I'll be more knowledgeable and can teach the new guy a thing or two. Sure helps having people out there in the troll fleet willing to help out.

Thanks again
-Sean

[old deckhand]

You can buy the bait snaps for the cable baiters or crow bars from Maahs Marine directly at 707 964 5832. Sonny (Bill) Maahs makes each snap by hand and size #2 is about $13.00 for three dozen.
old deckhand

[shakers]

Why do you cut the tail off????

[Salty]

Great question? For me they season the boiled cod pot.