09 is over
Carol W
2009-09-27 02:13:09
Well the 09 season is over and now on to the winter season, I can't beleave I have to go winter fishing after having such a good coho season in numbers but as we all know no value. That being said I sent in my nomination for a third term on the coop board, something else I can't beleave I am doing however with the low value we receaved on our advance and the ice situation all up and down the coast I decided to run again, somebody has to whine and ask questions and boy I am good at whining.
This has been quite the season we can only hope that the coop comes thru with a big second advance and the coho's next year are much larger.
Sounds like Neets Bay Chum was a big money maker for some of you and that is really cool as I put a lot of effort into seeing that we had at least one terminal area in the south end.
We had quite a few cohos right up to the other day but my little jar of grinding powder ran out with another in a long series of storm warnings on the 25th, I fished in 60 knot winds on the 23rd and to quote a scene from the Deadliest Catch "why does it have to be this way?"
Anyway when I go to the Coop board meeting I will be asking why our advance was so low and reminding staff that we are trying to make a living here and with an average price of less than a dollar it is damn hard to catch enough fish to live on.
I am dismayed and as you can tell a bit pissed off at how little money we receaved for these coho I can understand the halibut and king price going down but the coho is truelly a head scratcher. I did talk to Jeff the other day and he reassured me we have value returning to us in these fish so I guess we will live on a hope and a prayer untill Jan.
Anyway I just wanted to say hi and vent my frustration at catching so much earning so little.
Keep your hand on it.
Tom
carojae
2009-10-06 06:42:02
Maybe you can put a good word in for us Non-coop's while you're at it. Our price was low and was final. I say that in context with the high price of fuel and of gear in the mix.
And what ever happened to the fish buying scows? Chasing tenders and lining up at such scows as the Shoreline sucks (when they were busy they usually had a 2 day backlog). ***
And we use to get a little bonus for bringing in our product to the dock. What ever happened to the appreciation they had for fish that was only handled once and not thrown from boat to boat and then the plant. $0.05 - $0.07 above grounds price was common at one point. Now days it's not uncommon to get told to "move, we got a halibut boat coming in".
I remember the days of a free meal ticket for a dock delivery or a free box of bait. Things have sure changed.
Anyway, just trying to help you stir the pot.
Maybe next year. Thanks and hi.
Jim :|
Salty
2009-10-06 16:12:08
Tom,
You have my vote for the Co-op board and the SSRAA Board when you run again. You have done a wonderful job working for us, listening to us, and communicating where you stand. Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart and wallet.
It looks to me like we will be millions of dollars short of our share of the SE Hatchery Salmon harvest value again. Neets Bay helped but we somehow managed to get screwed again here in Sitka. Any ideas on how we improve the situation for the future?
birdfeeder1
2009-10-27 19:05:54
I belive that a lot of our low prices are due to NO Good Marketing of our beautiful troll caught fish. I have way to many relatives down south who belive (from good marketing) that a gill net caught red on the copper river is a better quality fish than a troll caught king. This is an outrage; or should be. I even went as far to prove my point to them and brought king, bought copper river red made it their favorite way and the troll king was a unanimous favorite in a blind taste test. Point being our fish are not marketed very well we all now there is no finer salmon than a troll caught salmon so lets get em to the market as that. The Finest. I have some ideas on how to market our fish but not all the resources as I am merely one troller.
Salty
2009-10-28 04:41:43
Right on birdfeeder. Just had some fine winter chinook the other night. Smells so good, the taste is so fresh and rich, the texture is just right, the oil melts in your mouth. Even makes that expensive bottle of wine seem pedestrian in comparison. MMMMMMMM.
Of course the state department employee here for a meeting brought the expensive wine. All us chum trollers can usually afford (when we splurge for wine) is Ripple or Thunderbird, or sometimes box wine. And the 28" winter Chinook had a shark bite or else we would have had to sell it to pay fuel.
yak2you2
2009-10-28 08:12:59
Your last line sounds like a good one for your " you know your a lowliner thread Salty". :D You know! your a lowliner when yer drinkin' thunderbird, mad dog, or night train ,,,,Yuck!! save your 3 dollars and just hit yourself in the head with a hammer.
hopeless chuck
2009-10-28 21:36:23
I believe salmon trollers have come along way in the last decade on educating the public on the quality and health values of troller caught salmon. But you folks have major hurdles in your way as many of you already know. The recession we are all in, the glut of gillnet caught salmon, our local Safeway this week is selling frozen Alaska gillnet sockeye fillets for 7.99 a Lb. I hate to say it but it looks good and most likely tastes good to the untrained palate. Plus you have other enemies.
I don't know if you folks up north can get the San Francisco talk show radio station, KGO, ( I believe you can at night) but hey have a nut on Sat. and Sun. nights Dr. Bill Wattenburg who promotes farmed atlantics as the equal to wild salmon and brags about going to food fairs promoting atlantics. His agenda also includes that water from the Snake and Columbia should go to farmers and that all the dams should remain intact and to hell with wild salmon runs. He also pushes that the salmon producing rivers in California should be used for anything other than salmon and bait fish. This station reaches millions (go to KGO and check out his archives) especially west coast consumers. I've tried to get on and counter his BS but they won't allow anyone on who can challenge his corporate agenda.
There for awhile it seemed there was alot of educating the public on the positive quality and heath related values of troll caught but that seems to have dried up.
Trollers need to continue to educate, educate, educate the general public or your prices may very well dry up as in the past. Hopeless Chuck.
Salty
2009-10-29 01:30:51
Does this station also carry Rush Limbaugh?
hopeless chuck
2009-10-29 02:55:13
No Limbaugh, they have from the far right Dr. Bill W. and the far left Ray Taliaferro and many in between. It is channel 810 am.
It's to bad there is no big name activist out there fighting for the trollers. One problem that has been with the trollers that goes way back is there are no lobbyists (that I am aware of )and very little power in DC for trollers, with your numbers shrinking and very few down south here you last remaining few have a tough road to haul. A friend who was once President of the N.W. Trollers Assoc. told me many years ago when he was in some politician's office,the politician told him to look at these assorted piles of paper work involving fisherman. The biggest pile was the big trawlers, the next biggest was the tribes and as he went down the piles the smallest of coarse was the trollers. I think you get my point.
What I have learned these last 10 years being a activist is that you must be very active on your issue because when your up against the feds ( NMFS is not your friend and never will be) and the big Corp. interests and others you will be squashed like a bug, but I have also learned you can fight DC and win, it takes time, money, perseverance and allies. With your biggest ally being the State of Alaska lets hope they have the balls to stay that way, if you lose them you better get your oilskins on, your gonna need um. Hopeless Chuck.
birdfeeder1
2009-11-02 23:49:44
I've been doing some thinking (scary thought in itself) and have come up with the idea of some kind of price cap. Oboma's administration loves to regulate prophet. So lets bring em into the trollin business. If some how someone could write up a bill limiting the prophet the superstores could make on fish. what i mean is don't let the fish be bought for 1.25 a lb at sea and then sold to the actual consumer for 9.99 lb. that isn't rite. set a cap on the prophet margin of these fish.such as 1.50 lb at sea and 6.00 to the consumer. or 2.00 lb -10.00 lb and so on. this would force the 2nd and 3rd partie sellers to do a better job of storage of the fish which would deliver a better product to the market. which would in turn bring more repete customers back for fish. Plus our government says it is all about health care and helping people with their diet and being healthy. well whats more healthy then salmon?
seachicken
2009-12-19 05:09:46
what a year sure would like to know how many trollers hade to go on welfare this winter.I personaly think its time we regulate the price of salmon like cab fare and the price of cohos should never be bellow the price of a gallon of fuel!and being a coop member why is it they drop down there price with the other fish pimps are they crazy ?they could keep a high price and have every king in se then the buyers would have to pay what we need to survive and keep the fleet running happy.as far as i am concerned the marketers for the coop are not doing their job because every time i go south or back east the reason most stores and markets sell farmed fish is because they cant even get a frozen coho from alaska and every time they ask how they can get fish from me.so explain were non demand comes from?cause i see plenty there are 100,000 restraunts on the west coast if every one got 2 kings that would be are years quota!in 1979 kings 3.00 cohos 2.00 fuel 60 cent every buisness in america has adjusted to make money as the cost of living went nup except us!! maybe that will show you guys that we are getting robbed
SilverT
2009-12-19 05:17:20
Tonight I stopped by the largest megachain grocer in town and couldn't help but notice the nice looking fillets in the case.
Previously Frozen King Salmon fillets - $18.99/lb. Alaska halibut - $19.99/lb and finally, Smoked Chum Salmon- $15.99/lb. I wondered what gold plated chum tasted like, bought a piece and was pleasantly surprised. I haven't seen a coho in the case in the last 3 months.
SilverT
2009-12-19 19:41:58
If, while running a business I could buy product at a fraction of it's cost, I would have a real advantage over my competition. If I could get my competition to agree with me to lower the price they would pay for the same product I would have an added advantage. If I could get my competition to abandon selling to my customers and just deliver the product they bought from their suppliers to me, then I would have things really locked up tight. Finally, if I could get my business partners to agree that if I wasn't able to make much money, they could be upset, but I could have the same partners support me the following year, I would really have something. If the penalty for marginal performance in business is guaranteed partnership and guaranteed business the following year those in charge may not feel really motivated to get out of bed for work every morning. My point is that these are people running the fish buying operations, with the same motivations as anyone else in business.
The fishermen I talk to seem to be happy when they get a second check of any substance. But, that second check does not necessarily reflect a good performance on the part of their partners (those marketing and selling their fish). Cutting deals with large companies to sell fish may be eliminating a lot of required marketing effort, distribution work, and profit. Does a system of checks exists to make sure that everyone from the top down is motivated to give their best?
On the other hand (the positive), what motivation exists for the marketers of the product? When business goals are set by the company at the beginning of the year are there clear milestones, coupled with financial rewards for those whose performance merits appreciation and a bonus? Those developing new markets containing customers willing to pay more for exceptional product are people who deserve to be rewarded. What about performance rewards for processing lines and distribution goals. People work hard when they have someone that believes in them. They also work hard when they are held accountable. I met a lot of really hard working folks in this business for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect. I just doesn't appear that the system is set up for maximum success of all involved.
The above is what appeared to be happening this year. Someone with a lot more experience could probably shed some light on where my perspective is off, so fire away.
jonah
2009-12-20 01:22:09
Seachicken I agree with you. I have complained to the spc board and management for quite a few years about the lack of marketing. You and all the other co-op members that are disgusted with our sales staff must write to the board and let them know how you feel. If you send letters all board members and management read them. I have seen 3 supermarket ads for sockeye fillets for$7.99 & $8.99 lb. and one specialty market had sockeye for over $10.00 lb. I've seen one ad for ak troll coho fillets for $6.99
seachicken
2009-12-20 07:20:44
maybe the coop should cut fisherman that market coop fish for the coop a commission check for selling coop lbs it would give us the incentive to market our fish through the coop i could sell quite a bit of 10$ a lb fish for a fifty cent a lb commission
salmon4u
2009-12-22 10:00:37
I've enjoyed the comments. As far as demand for product in my experience, I have endless people asking me for fish, I'm tired of trying to give them excuses for the co op. and why they can't get any of my fish. My vote will be that sales and marketing should be only commission sales. Also why not set up a way to sell smaller portions out of Bellingham ???
Trollers selling their own product are getting happy return customers paying 6 to 8 bucks a pound for coho's, = $40 / fish, even getting half of that amount after marketing expense would help the ice boats to stay in business. let's see an average of 3500 coho x $40 = hmmmm yep $140,000 gross.... of course most guys usually get 4 to 8 k cohos.. : )
Salty
2009-12-22 10:44:23
So, that is how the troll fleet keeps going, voodoo math. Lets say only about conservatively that 600 hand and power trollers fish coho seriously and we catch 1.5 million like we did in 2009 and they average 6lbs. dressed. So that is by my math 9 million lbs. divided by 600 trollers equals 15,000 pounds dressed weight. So even if we got $3.00 per pound that still only comes to $45,000 average per troller.
Figure that some of the fleet doubles the average and you have $90,000 for the summer coho. That might work for the 20% or so doubling the average. Add in a few kings and you might make a season. That still leaves 80% of the fleet wondering how they make it.
Carol W
2009-12-24 02:35:11
Sorry I haven't been on to give update on the last Coop meeting as I had to go fishing cause I was once again broke seems like that is the story of 09. Anyhow a lot of the comments here I agree with in substance, in reallity though some of these ideas are not as easy to implement as they seem at face value. That being said I often times look at my own experience and have to wonder I just fished for a couple weeks and sold all my fish to people in Ketchikan right off the boat for $8 and everybody was happy to get the fish, so one has to wonder if a lowly member of the rice bag navy can do this then what is the problem with the coop. First off after being on the board for 6 years there is nothing that happens fast inside the coop, that doesn't mean it can't happen. There are checks and balances that are directly linked to the staffs compensation in regards to the return for our fish, paying our sales staff on commission or changing their compensation is a slippery slope, this year with the recession competion in the job market is fierce however in a normal year there are several companies that would love to suck up our sales staff at the drop of a dime. The sales staff has done a great job and continues to do a good job and it is very easy to armchair quarterback, the recession has definately effected the demand for our King Salmon, the folks in the income bracket that purchase our Kings are the same people who lost a lot of wealth in the stock market so they have clamped their wallets shut. Unfortunatlly for us the Safeway's of the world are taking advantage of the fact they have infrastructure to move fish all over the world and because of their marketing power are able to buy cheap and sell at high prices thus protecting their profit margin. The sales staff doesn't make sales just to make sales they drive the price up and they also have done analysis of the customers to determine the customers profitablillity and overall economic health, why is this important you may ask, we have not been stung by customers not paying us. The sales staff even with the recession has generated NEW customers beleave me they are not just resting on their laurals. I know it is frustrating to not see fish for sale from Bellingham however everybody needs to remember that in 07 we were out of fish by the end of Nov. and the prices were good. The ideas are good and there are members of the board who are continuously asking questions as to how to do small sales.
All this being said there was quite a battle at the board over what to do with the lost value in the Halibut and King Salmon pools from last year. So we pulled money from retained earnings and now the 09 pools will stand on their own and we will get a check in Jan and March. We also implemented capital improvements in refridgeration and the fillet line to increase our value added production, once these improvements are up and running we should be able to increase our returns to members by another 70 cents. Our ice supply should increase by around 20 tons a day as we are installing a slurry machine for the plant floor so that we won't use flake ice on the floor. We are also negotiating with the City of Craig to operate the ice machine there and install a bigger machine to increase the ice capacity in Craig. We will once all these improvements are made take our #2 fish and slack them out during the off season and make portions which will turn a #2 into #1 portions which will increase our value. As frustrating as things are beleave me the staff and board are not just doing nothing to improve our lot in life. I am just as broke as my fellow trollers and need to maximize the value of every pound I produce for 100% of my income comes form trolling.
Keep your hand on it
Tom
salmon4u
2009-12-24 07:36:06
Thanks for the insight,
I agree with how things can move slowly. I remember how long it took to do value added vaccum packed fillets, now we're facing the same thing with selling portions out of Bellingham.
There's demand for our fish. direct sales would make a huge difference in profit.
Trollers shouldn't have to go broke, We represent a productive part of the economy. On the other side,I recently read that gov. employees have seen their best year in history. avg fed gov employees wages now around 80k plus benefits.
One concern we should have with SPC is transparancy. As members of SPC we're told it's our buisness, but in reality we're mostly left uninformed about the specific sales, marketing, setting prices.
I guess maybe it is simple to me.
If the members of SPC are going broke, then the sales/marketing have failed, and to make it worse, at a time when millions of people are buying salmon at good prices.
I'd hate to think of leaving the co-op after being a loyal member for 20 years, but I could have made double or triple the money with half the amount of fish had I sold direct with my own personal market the last two years.
This is why I again bring up the subject of direct sales. I am sure that all trollers have individuals they could all sell to. What a resource that we're not taking advantage of.
ashadu
2009-12-24 09:51:16
Is it impossible to call spc bellingham and buy 1000 lb of packaged frozen portions and have them delivered near to ones home. leaving only cold storage and sales to the individual fishermen? what would the minimum be, Ive forgotton the weight of a air frieght container, although I'm sure smaller lots can be shipped by truck. We have to think about efficency per pound of sales by the sales force or increase our sales force and handleling staff to deal with small lots. You would pay the same wholesale price that other buyers pay the coop and then would value add by personal marketing. we have a personal marketer in our town who used his email list to educate his costomers as to quality, recipes, and the politics of our business. ten years after his first off the boat sale, he now has 2 seafood restraunts and a fishmarket, 40 employees and in a tourist town, the majority of his customers are locals and repeats. five years ago,off the boat, he once sold 6000 lbs of king salmon he had caught in 5 days---took him and his family 2 days. also, he always keeps his prices as fair as he possibly can, a repeat customer is priceless. I am sure that our sales staff does the same , only they have to deal with 10000 lb lots and larger. lastly, 09 was just about as bad a year for the economy as you ever want to see, lots of business's went broke, restraunts probably led the pack, we will do better in the future. happy holidays ashadu
Salty
2010-01-01 06:38:48
I think the title of this thread may have been premature. With darkness covering all the troll areas and this being the last day of 09 I think it is finally safe to claim that 09 is over so far as catching Eastern Pacific troll salmon. I managed to initiate my new bow poles today by catching a nice 22 pound dressed king. While it was not on either of the new bowpoles, who remain virginal so far as Chinook catching, it was on my port main pole (I guess I will have to retrain myself in bow pole main pole terminology instead of "heavy and float bags or tips".) Without a bag and with only a 35 pound lead the king really gave the pole a ride. Pretty cool to gaze in the clear water and see the fish and the flasher several fathoms down. $7.00 per lb.
The eves have been pretty good to us here in Sitka. Last year on Christmas Eve my son and I had a great deer hunt with a couple of nice deer and a great adventure with the skiff and the surf. This year on New Years Eve I find a nice King. The moon rise last night over Baranof on the way in and the moon set over Kruzof this morning were something.
Happy New Year to all of you on this Forum and I challenge someone to initiate a new thread titled "The first King of 2010". I will handicap myself by staying home tomorrow to watch my alma matter, Oregon, take on those Buckeyes. So, the challenge is laid. I will be out on the second. (I did get skunked yesterday so it might take a while.)