summer 09 king/coho price
yak2you2
2009-06-11 14:01:46
I've been out of the loop for a while, what's this summer's troll prices looking like? anybody got any rumors?? How about spring prices on wilds, where are they at?
What little scuttlebutt I've been hearing is sounding kind of scary.If what I've beeen hearing is true and were looking at some very low troll prices this summer, can anyone give me a good reason?
What I saw laying out in the shelves down south sure didn't seem to reflect it. Kind feels like were being groomed for a beating.
Salty
2009-06-12 00:39:06
Welcome back Casey. $3.75 here today at SPC for large red kings. I sold 40 kings this week last year for $6,000. $2400 for the same size trip today. Guess we will have to make it up in volume. Oops, the kings aren't cooperating.
My friend had a great time sport fishing in Yakutat last month.
Eric
yak2you2
2009-06-13 04:39:06
So,,, what's the reasoning for the down turn in price? Chinook's fish market in Seattle had fresh troll caught kings for 17.99 per lb. for whole fish. Same price or more down on Pike street, seems like the price is holding up on that end. I'm not sure what they were getting at this time last year, but it does seem like a pretty huge difference. I've been hearing even scarier numbers for troll Coho. I just hope the economic down turn hasn't turned into a good excuse to ream the fleet.
Oh well like you say Eric, guess we'll have to make it up in volume. One thing sure I'm going fishin',,,no matter what, it would just be nice to get paid too.
Did you and everyone else have a good spring? I get to start gillnetting Sockeyes this Sunday, I'm looking forward to getting out and getting some fresh air. What did your friend do? Steelies, Halibut, kings, or all of the above. Did he go out with Geoff? When are you gonna come up for your visit?
ambition
2009-06-13 19:50:09
One plant manager I have heard from was saying coho prices will be poor. He claims one of the biggest markets for cohos is Europe, and Europe is in bad economic shape and just not buying cohos. So with the laws of supply and demand that means our dock price is gonna, for lack of a better term, suck. Another thing to consider is many of the plants had fish left over from last season that they paid us rather well for, but they were not able to sell these fish for what they believed they could. So I'm thinking they are passing their losses from last year to us this year with poor dock prices. (I may be wrong on this) I did have a friend who was in a supermarket on the east coast see dog salmon (Kita) listed at $14.50 a pound.
Salty
2009-06-13 20:18:04
My friends rented a cabin and skiff from Yakutat Lodge. One of them, my former teaching, fishing partner had a great time. I think he caught and released 12 steelhead in two days. His partners did not follow his advice and caught one between them. They had great halibut and king fishing on the reef. I don't know who their saltwater guide was.
Big sockeye showing early in a couple of systems near here. Doesn't sound good for coho or summer Chinook prices. Doesn't sound good for chum trolling as lots of people are gearing up and the chums stop biting when there is too much gear being drug over them. I have always said chum trolling is not a "scratch" fishery. You have to be geared, slushed, and crewed up to handle running gear steady for a month to even think about entering the fishery. Not that any of us have caught at a good rate for years but if you aren't set up both physically and mentally for the long haul and volume production the fishery will totally frustrate you and burn you out.
I have had miserable second king openings for many years now (with a couple of notable exceptions) because the chum fishing had sapped my energy and my desire to be rolling around. We figure we run over 100 wires a day when we are scratching chums. We couldn't do it on my boat anymore without the gear setters.
Anyway Casey, glad to hear you will be fishing again. I am afraid we should be bracing ourselves for a lean season and lining up winter work now.
yak2you2
2009-06-13 21:17:07
Big sockeyes here too.
tacorajim
2009-06-16 00:06:16
Just back from shopping across the river in Astoria. Safeway's premium meat/seafood counter offered
Last week guys who were lucky enough to go north instead of south, or out of Westport found some kings but not that many. During 5 days, one local guy said he made a $2,000 week out of it. He's an old timer who used to do that every day. But the first day he sold he got $7.90/lb, 2 days later $5.60/lb, and he was still waiting to see if his last catch would bring him $4.60/lb. His best day was 19 kings.
I avoid Safeway, only stop there as a last resort when in a hurry. They had plenty of cheap Atlantic Salmon and farmed shrimp from Indonesia, junk fish from everywhere, right smack dab centered on a coastline that produces the finest fresh fish in the world.
troller001
2009-06-16 18:26:29
Just curious does anyone know why Safeway doesn't carry Troll King fillets in there case?
Price, Lack of Availability, Marketing, Transportation (Logistics)
yak2you2
2009-06-16 18:28:18
What IS up with that? You could see it out in the mid-west or somewhere where fresh seafood is hard to come by, but why is like that out here on the west coast ??
Peddling trash fish described as fresh seafood in stores like Safeway and Costco should be as illegal as selling dog described as beef.
I was looking at Costco's new "sushi" section. True to their style, costco will sell you a giant platter full of sushi for 6.50, trouble is, it's all made of Surimi. Catchy little names like, "Krab", meant to dupe the unwary into thing they got a deal.
I realize that we as an industry can't patent things like sushi, or the words Wild salmon, but I would just like to ask other types of producers how they would feel if we started producing cut rate products with catchy names like, "Korn," or " Kattle". How about if we start up our own cut rate stores for that matter, we could call it " Kostco".
tacorajim
2009-06-17 00:42:13
Last year when I mentioned this lack of fresh local seafood at Fred Meyers (also in Astoria) the buyer guy came out from the back and said he was restricted in his buying by what "came down from Corporate". He said he was lucky to sometimes persuade 'corporate' on local seafood products like shrimp, cod, salmon, halibut, and crab. I said Why. Never mind, he said.
I recall going there to buy a duckling for New Years and asking the same guy why all of a sudden there were no ducklings. He said we cleared the shelves of them. Corporate's orders. Push turkey. Vast inventory left over from the Holidays.
What bothers me is ASMI was receiving Alaska state grants and member participation fees since before the 80's (?). ASMI'S mission in part was to connect the dots between the skipper's premium product and many retail seafood shelves and high-end restaurants around the world. Advertise the hell out of it. Subsidize Alaska Airlines for fresh delivery (a great break-through). Connect them. Yet we are here now asking ourselves what's up with this age old corporate marketing strategy that excludes us fishermen. I don't get it. Will someone here explain it to me?
The Chaser
2009-07-09 00:56:51
Pacific seafoods here in Bandon Orygone has "Fresh caught sockeye" for 12.99 and some old frozen king parts that looks like it came from some cost recovery for 17.99. I just wondering were there fresh caught sockeye is comming from? They didn't seem happy about me asking questions that were pointed as to when and were the fish was caught. As to if they would be getting any FRESH troll caught king from Alaska, she replied that they might get some from Washington but it is to hard to get from Alaska. I sat out front for over an hour (July 4 it was a good spot to watch the fire works from) before they closed and business was brisk for the OLD fish they were selling. Why isn't our good fish being represented better and prices reflecting?????????
yak2you2
2009-07-10 04:37:32
When the economy is poor, does the price of other groceries go down? Not where I live. The guys producing fruits and vegetables, pork or chicken, etc. don't want to hear about your financial problems, they have expenses of their own to deal with. They, hold the line. They do this by having strong unions.
Seafood is still selling, and it does appear to be selling at the same prices on the retail end, it's just not trickling down to the fishermen's end.
Someone once said that trying to organize fishermen was like trying to herd cats, it just doesn't work. I have to admit that in my experience it seems to be true, but times are getting so desperate, I for one believe the time has come for a troller's union.
Each fishery is different, gillnet guys will have a tougher time simply because there's so many different types of fisheries, with vastly different quality levels. Hand picked gillnet fish are not the same as seined fish, there by commanding different prices. Troll fish have the unique advantage of being uniform, or should be anyway, and in theory a union should be able to hold the line for a uniform, set price.
I've always felt that if you could get every single salmon troller on the westcoast together in the same room and get them to band together to command the price they feel they need in order to survive, you just might have something. You name your price, as long as it was fair and not to high, and if every fisherman would hold to it, I think you could finally eliminate some of the middle-man loss factor. It's my opinion that it's always been the fat guys in the middle who've always been the problem. It's not the fisherman, it's not the processors or the fish market guys. All of these people smell like fish, do an honest day's work, together they don't make anywhere near as much as the fat guys on the telephones who never so much as touch a fish.
I know, they would try to break our union, by substituting our wild troll caught salmon with some other lesser quality fish caught cheaper in some other fishery, but quality stands on it's own two legs in my opinion. I think the chefs and the white table cloth patrons who are our biggest customers would demand the type of quality they've become accustomed to.
All I know for sure is, if we don't do something along these lines, we will surely perish as a fishery. Where I am gas is 4.10 a gallon, kings are selling for 2.30 lb., cohos for 1.25. That sort of math isn't going to allow for a troll fishery for much longer. I'm only a part timer now-a-days, and I can hardly afford to go anymore, I shutter to thing about the ulcers the full timers are getting worrying about how to feed their families and pay their banknotes on today's prices.
We have to wrestle control of our fish back from the corporate middlemen if were going to survive. It's so bad I can't even understand what the suits are thinking? How is your pyramid scheme going to work, if you don't feed your Egyptians???
squarehead
2009-07-13 05:21:31
good point I would love to see a fisherman set starting price, the coop tries to balance prices and is run by fishermen.
egyptians
No need to feed them once we all lose our shirts and permits go back to 13,000 a new batch of hopeful young folks will take the places of us grumpy oldtimers. :D
Once and Future
2009-07-19 16:38:57
After 51 years I finally begin to understand things like why the corporate grocery managers don't care whether they're selling high quality local fish or low quality imported crap. Its because when they get home at night, their bed is just as soft and comfy, their checking account just as full, whether they do the "easy" thing or the "right" thing at work. If doing the right thing takes 2% more effort - then the heck with it. They're trying to get by with as little effort as possible.
The commercial fisherman's perspective is very different from the rest of the world. They consider us "nuts" because living close to nature is so important to us - adventure is so important - the sea is so important - the "right" thing is so important - that we risk our lives on the ocean, turning our back on the comfy beds and the big houses. Remember that conclusion some study made 10 years ago or so that commercial fishing was the "worst" profession of all? That is because judged from the perspective of the urban population, it doesn't offer the main thing they want - security - with low effort.
So when a fisherman shows up at the meat counter and starts asking pointed questions - the clerk or manager rolls his eyes. You are one of the one tenth of one percent of customers that knows the product. And you are making his life difficult. All he wants is his comfy bed or the ball game and a beer. And you are giving him grief. It doesn't occur to him it's because you know something, just that you are a troublemaker.
So the corporate decision makers think fundamentally differently from the way we do. How to get them to change? I don't know. Co-ops or something like a fisherman's union are the best idea, but human nature tends to undermine them in the end as well.
When younger, I was frustrated by my grandfather. His ideals were always so high he lived without much money. And he taught his important ideals to us that he held dear - which made it practically impossible to profit from our labors. And yet when his shrewd offspring that ignored his ideals were able to make big money - he worshipped the ground they walked on because they were able to achieve what he never could. And he was fascinated with their thick wallets.
So if you are going to influence the decision makers on what kind of fish they buy, you have to show them how it is going to put more money in their pocket with virtually no more effort. Or find the stray manager here or there that gets a kick out of those hard working fisherman and wants to do the right thing by them.
But remember you are functioning in a country whose economy has collapsed because we allowed the CEO's to personally steal all the money that was supposed to go to the shareholders. And their grandfathers are proud of them because they've really got the bucks.
yak2you2
2009-07-20 03:21:47
It wasn't us who let the CEO's wreck this country. You can blame that one fully on the elected officials, ( all of them by the way, both parties.)
The suits own our elected officials, as much or more so than they do us. If our government doesn't get an enema and right soon, this entire country is doomed to fail.
Take a look at the renewable energy issue for a minute. It's the dams that have wrecked the west coast salmon runs, and everybody knows it. Whether directly by blowing the smolts through the turbines, or indirectly by changing the water temperatures in the river. Trouble is, they provide so much cheap electricity, you'd send the country into a tailspin if you removed them now. So how do you replace all that cheap electricity without raising the costs or wrecking the environment? Nuclear power plants are the obvious answer. Don't quote me anything about a bunch of dudes drunk on Vodka burning one down in Cherynobyl either. As I write this there's probably about 20 nuclear power plants parked right across the sound from Seattle in Bremerton right now being operated by the U.S. Navy. They do so safely, and effectively, and have been for about 40 years. So, it can be done.
Don't think for a minute that the elected body haven't been advised of that by the bean counters. So why don't they blow up the dams and switch over to nuclear? Because, CEO's build and maintain dams, and they make a lot of money doing so. Even when a current nuclear plant is built the contrators have to make a small fortune pouring millions of yards of cement, and their still vulnerable to earthquakes. Blow up the dams, park an aircraft carrier where the dam used to be and patch into the grid. You have an earthquake the water cushions the ship,problem solved. In order to make nuclear work safely it would have to be militarized, and the CEO's wouldn't make any money, so,,, our environment, and our economy continues to go right down the toilet.
As goofy as the French are, they had something figured out when they came up with the Guillotine, keeps politicians a little more honest.
We need some.
Salty
2009-07-20 16:46:11
The four Snake River Dams provide less than 5% of the hydro power in the Region. They irrigate only 13 major agrifarms. The recreational value of those rivers with free flowing water dwarfs the value of them as lakes. The only two reasons to keep those dams in place are to make Lewiston, Idaho a "Sea Port" which saves a few pennies on the cost of shipping grain downriver. The other reason is that those dams have become psuedo religious type icons that many in the regions somehow identify as part of their culture. To me they are false idols. Pagan symbols of dam building run amok.
Damming the Columbia both to the extent and without adequate consideration of ecological damage is one of the great environmental tragedies of our civilization. There are numerous histories of how this developed. "Cadillac Desert" and "Mountain in the Clouds" are two of the best. There is another one I read a couple of years ago by a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter whose family grew up in the Grand Coulee area, but I can't remember it off the top of my head.
yak2you2
2009-07-21 12:53:09
I remember when I was just a young kid fishing with my grandfather, I used to listen to old Tlinget fisherman talk about what the Situk river was like in days gone by. They put a train in, way back when, just to haul the fish in from that river. Train load after train load. Funny thing is, the train ran for about 30 years before the "state" took over the reins of the river, and it always produced. It still has had some record years since, but there sure isn't any train loads.
I wish I had a port hole that allowed me to peer into the past, just to see what it was like. Must have been crazy, damn near a virgin river. I wonder too, what the Columbia must have been like? Millions and millions of salmon. The Bristol bay of Oregon/Washington. I can't even imagine what kind of monster king salmon must have cruised the waters in those days....