cost of ribs
Carol W
2008-12-23 16:48:53
Does anybody have a rough idea as to the cost of ribs, seems like when you ask a shipwright for a rough idea as to cost of their work they act like it is voodoo magic and that you are supposed to just have them do the work and they will tell you the bill when done. I know there are some hidden issues when dealing with an old boat however if the shipwright is doing repair on a fairly regular basis they could give you some idea within a row of a$%holes what things cost.
tacorajim
2008-12-23 18:05:51
They probably don't want to scare you off. That, and they know they don't know what they are going to find when they start tearing planks off. They usually pull off 1-2 planks where the hardest chine is. Often the insides are punky.
I got bending oak from Eden Saw. For 33 ribs, I had to get enough 2 1/4", 6'-8' white oak for 38 pieces ($700). You cull some, or maybe break a couple not steaming them right. My ribs end at the covering board as opposed to those that continue up through the bulwarks clear to the caprails (more money).
You should figure on taking out all the old ribs and fasteners and filling the holes with 'swede nails' (square cedar sticks) It's labor intensive. I probably spent 5-6 days. You also have to figure reefing all the old seams aft of the cabin, refastening and recorking after the new ribs are in. Your boat will probably need 1200 new fasteners @.35 through Englund if you're lucky (bulk discount). You want to take off all the old bottom paint. We had to replace a couple of deck beams. I had to chip out all the concrete ballast.
I worked alongside my shipwright. All the above is part of a new ribs project. While steaming and driving 33 ribs only took us 5 days, the shipwright spent 280 hours, and he's fast. Let's say you find a shipwright for $40/hr. If he's as fast as mine you could ballpark each rib costing $420, doing all the above, plus replacing 2ea 16-foot air dried fir planks.
There are cheaper ways to go, but I wanted to extend the life of the boat by at least 25 years sticking to traditional, proven methods and materials. A friend of mine in Eureka got by spending half this by putting in epoxied 'lammies' in the water. Other guys here used 'plastic' . . . much cheaper. I wouldn't recommend either of these alternatives.
Bottom line: You can do it right for $400 to $500 per rib.
Carol W
2008-12-23 18:59:54
thanks i have reefed the whole boat below guards and driven a thousand screws so far.
Ocean Gold
2008-12-24 01:26:24
Wow those must be prime ribs, Hey Tom give us a call and we will give you the phone number for another place to check on oak prices, we deal with these guys on hard woods for the toys we make and they are very reasonable. I think the labor is the job killer these days.
Ed
tacorajim
2008-12-24 01:42:59
I yield to your local hotshot/plastic-boat guy. He makes toys? 'Tis the season to be jolly. Merry Christmas.
Ocean Gold
2008-12-24 06:14:27
HoHoHO http://home.gci.net/~woodentoys/ old page updating soon, lol. we had wood boats for the first twenty years of fishing in Puget Sound, but when we got to Ak the yellow cedar blew off the ribs so we sold her. Last time I saw the Steadfast it was owned by a guy in Angoon he hadn't done a thing to it fifteen years later. My first boat was a old castle/cole 32' gillnetter with mohog planks it had to be the best and stongest planking job I have every seen. Easy to paint.
Call aand ask these guys about wood and tell them what you are doing with it they will help or at least steer you in the right direction. http://www.lumberproducts.com/Products/Lumber/hardwoodlumber3.htm
PS Plastic is awsome but I miss my old wood boat a lot.
yak2you2
2008-12-24 16:24:05
:lol: Gold, you have every make of boat available on your site, except for a troller, what's up with that?
Next year you might think about posting your toys a little sooner than Christmas eve.
Cool looking toys though, must be a very rewarding hobby.
Do you make anything else besides toys?
Carol W
2008-12-24 16:54:59
Thanks everybody, I also called edenshaw woods and now have some rough ideas to use in negotiating with shipwright.
Ocean Gold
2008-12-24 17:09:09
Liability the sticks/pole have me a little worried when I can come up with a safe design then I will sell them :oops:
tacorajim
2008-12-24 19:20:29
My scenario was almost 'worst-case'. But it pays to allow for the unexpected.
Best case scenario I've heard concerning ribs is what Reino Randall (a massive brute of a shipwright) did in Newport 6-7 years ago. He'd put in well over a thousand ribs. He told me his best career day was 21, but he was all set up and had a good helper. It was a long day. When I talked to him, he had just finished putting 50 ribs in an old 50-ft. troller. Very little other work. The bill was $11,500 including yard time and haulout. It doesn't get much better than that. He was only charging $35/hr. then.
Good luck
f/v henrietta w
2008-12-27 04:54:28
Reno is still going strong down here and is still the fastest wood butcher around - watching him size up a cut and rough cut it almost to perfection is amazing.
Carol W
2008-12-29 17:37:49
I stopped in Port Townsend yesterday and checked on the boat and the oak is now sitting in shipwright's shop and looks like it is time to rock and roll after the 1st of the year. Still feels like I am on a slippery slope in terms of money for this project, I will just have to watch how things go.
Ocean Gold
2008-12-29 18:21:46
Tom, just for fun ask if Tom Chamberlin is around still, his dad built a pretty cool little halibut schooner back in the 70s on Lopez.
Carol W
2008-12-29 18:31:58
will do ed and am thinking of calling reino
Ocean Gold
2008-12-29 21:16:02
Tom, if he is still alive would be a good source of who is who he's been their for a long time.
Ocean Gold
2008-12-29 21:22:33
tacorajim
2008-12-31 01:42:57
I ran way over on my rib project, both the shipwright's estimate and my own savings. What I should have done was tell the shipwright I'd pay him in full each Friday. And warn him when I had only a week'$ more work $aved up, with an eye on what it would take to launch when it got that close. Warning! Don't let him start ripping off planks or bulwarks on both sides (or aft of the poopdeck break timber if there is one). They can often survive at least another season. But if you stand there and let them be torn off -- well obviously they have to be replaced before you go fishing. I've seen this happen several times. Job security.
I suggest you confine the scope of work to Plan A, replacing the fish hold ribs only. If it goes really well, move on to another controllable phase. If your shipwright is still shrugging his shoulders after he's had time to poke around and identify the bad wood with realistic estimates you feel cozy with . . . hold off.
Carol W
2008-12-31 17:08:01
Thanks for the advice Jim I have been wrestling with how to keep shipwright under control, I think the downturn in the economy has effected how many jobs he has and is having a cash flow issue and it concerns me. the most important ribs are in the pit so I will have him start there after I jackhammer cement out of pit, sounds like fun.
tacorajim
2008-12-31 17:58:19
You're welcome to any thing I know about preserving an old wood troller. Feel free to email me to my handle @ yahoo dot calm. I rented from United Rentals an elec. rotary hammer. On the Invoice it says "Make: SB PWRTOOL, (Bosch) Model: 11235evs", with chisel and moil point bits, after trying a couple too small. $190 for one week. Perfect for the job.
.
F/V Carina
2009-01-01 19:51:52
I suggest you confine the scope of work to Plan A, replacing the fish hold ribs only. If it goes really well, move on to another controllable phase. If your shipwright is still shrugging his shoulders after he's had time to poke around and identify the bad wood with realistic estimates you feel cozy with . . . hold off.
Tom, I just wanted to strongly agree with Jim and re-enforce the need to limit the scope of work to small manageable sections. My wife and I learned this lesson the hard way. About ten years ago (with a prior troller), we went out in the yard for a "small" bulwarks repair job and by the end of the first day of
Ocean Gold
2009-01-01 19:55:45
To sum up what everyone is saying PLASTIC or STEEL I loved my wood boat but!!
tacorajim
2009-01-01 22:50:32
But what if my mama had avoided the pain of childbirth?
tacorajim
2009-01-05 02:00:17
Zoom in on the West Coast troll fleet. Steel boats, plastic, wood and cement.
Before you say one is more/less maintenance you need to hear this.
A steel boat built after 1968 has or should have at least one new bottom. One local 46' combo rig is on its 3rd bottom Some old timers say the steel bottom lasts only 25-30 years. (Depends lots on how ‘hot’ the harbor is). Gordie’s Castaway is a prime example.
Glass? We’ve seen a 1978 Skookum Sail/troller seriously delaminate.There’s an old 50ft. Uniflite troller presently listed – a recent survey found it structurally unsound. I’ve seen guys here part with their glass boat ‘cause it was cracking/leaking.
Cement? I had one in Sausalito built by Barnes. 25 year ‘shelf life’, then grew cracks and began leaking. One local entrpreneur made a living patching up all the leaky ferro-cement houseboats.
An old wood boat properly maintained has proved superior in the long run. Halibut schooners?
.
sixlines
2009-01-18 05:24:07
WOW, ouch.Need a number for shipwrite in porttownsend if I could.
Carol W
2009-01-19 03:53:19
Well I got 2500 screws driven throwing in 3 ribs this week, plug holes, sand the hull and then corking begins. I am making progress slow but surely and will hopefully be back in fishing mode by late April. Nice to see things going back towards together and really nice to not have to drive 330 screws in a day my poor gaffing arm, the guy behind me on the drag is going to love those screws as he scoops up what falls off my gaff hook.
tacorajim
2009-01-19 04:02:58
Hang in there Cap. Anyone who keeps up an old wood boat is an hero (grammatically correct, yet . . . ?).
Carol W
2009-01-20 16:12:34
I am hanging in there as a matter of fact I celebrated the last boat payment the other day, so I now own that old pile of boards I call a boat. Now I should survive the economic crisis I own boat and permit so all i have to do is feed myself, a much better spot to be in than trying to pay off a $280,000 Little Hoquiem. Keep the lines in the water and your hand on it.
seanm
2009-04-01 00:42:44
Are there any updates on the blue one?
I rember this boat from portland years and
Years ago.
Carol W
2009-04-11 17:08:39
The Carol W has now been completely rescrewed below the guards with size 18 X 3 1/2 screws recorked completely below the guards and now has 2 coats of bottom paint and a coat of primer and one coat of TOM'S Blue. I have patched the sponsons and did some patching on the starboard bulwarks in the stearn. I am hoping to have the guards and the bulwarks painted by the end of the coming week and once that is done I will schedule a launch date. To say the Carol W is doing good and has had a lot of attention this winter is putting it mildly, me on the other hand I am totally burned out and dread working on the old girl every morning and I still have a full season to fish. I better find me a deckhand so I can rest it has been a long winter.
tacorajim
2009-04-12 00:54:12
Bravo Tom,
I know the feeling, like coming off a 'tour of duty' and facing deployment weeks away.
My last big project like yours . . . new ribs, refastened and recorked kept me out of the water 4.5 months. During which I fell in and out of love with my boat and this gorgeous lady at the same time, and wound up so broke I had to get a bank loan (when banks were solvent). Should I have warned you? Ha-ha. Maybe I helped trick you into saving another old wood troller. Sorry. Not.
Seriously, I got over it real quick. So will you. Breathe deep and get it on.
Congratulations,
Jim
Carol W
2009-04-12 17:00:26
I do feel good about the boat Jim and no you didn't trick me however I am looking for donations to the Carol W restoration fund so I buy enough diesel to get to Alaska and fish a trip.
Keep your hand on it.
Carol W
2009-04-12 17:43:27
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Salty
2009-04-14 15:49:49
The good news Tom is that you have not missed much. Just finished my second trip. Averaging one a day so far. Skunked yesterday.