white kings - Forums Archive

yak2you2

2008-11-04 21:20:32

So here's the question of the day, what's the deal with white kings? Meaning, where are they going? there are dozens of rivers and streams within a 200 mile radius of me, but not 1 has ever had a white king caught in it, not 1. In fact, I've never heard of a river that does get whites, yet we all catch them in the ocean. is there just a couple of rivers that get 100% whites, or are there a few that get a mix? Which rivers are they? Curiosity kills me.

I'm just glad that where ever their going, they sure have some healthy genetics. A lot of the biggest kings I catch are usually whites, depending on the time of year, and I love the nice oily flesh, reminds me of black cod for some reason.

Salty

2008-11-04 21:55:42

Here is what I have heard.

White kings have a recessive gene that allows them to convert the carotene in the krill and other organisms with carotene in them to white flesh while most Pacific Salmon do not have this gene. Some streams South of Cape Spencer to the Fraser River in BC. have stocks with a % of whites. The SE hatchery stocks from Andrews Creek (Stikine), Unuk River, and Chickaman River all have this gene at about a 20% rate. One of the tributaries of the Fraser has a stock that is all or nearly all white according to conversations I have had with ADF&G Biologists.

One of the effects of this gene is that, according to an ASMI staff person who was on my boat with some foreign journalists a number of years ago, the flesh of the white kings usually has a higher fat content than the flesh of a comparable red. It also seems to be correlated somewhat with size based on my experience fishing for many years and cleaning Sitka Salmon Derby kings for 20 years. A higher percentage of the fish over 40 pounds seem to be white.

On a corallary note we have a few white coho in Northern SE. I caught one this year.

I hope this is helpful.

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yak2you2

2008-11-04 23:45:54

That is very helpful. I didn't know a lot of that, but it all makes sense. One would thing that they would be getting rarer and rarer. Meaning, that if it is a recessive gene that causes it, and they spawn in rivers that only have 20% or so white returns, you would think that eventually they would get bred out of the gene pool. Which probably is the case, but you would never see a difference in your life time. That is most bizarre about the white cohos, I've never seen one of those, but I would like to. A couple of weird things that I have seen though,,,every once in a while I will get into a batch of winter kings that have orange-ish colored flesh. One would almost suggest that there had been some cross breeding between reds and whites, because they are so obviously different in appearance from a normal red, which doesn't sound like the reason now, given the recessive gene explanation. perhaps they are just slightly genetically different from the other two, and even more rare.

the other weird thing that i've seen, happened to me not once, but twice. twice I've caught a hermaphrodite coho. Nothing will make you sit and stare a while like zipping a fish open and finding eggs and milt in the same body cavity. Twice. in the same summer, about 10 or 12 years ago. Nope, before anyone asks, not a sip of booze at the time. I actually turned one of them in to the local ADF&G field office. This would be an example of not enough branches on your family tree I guess, makes it a lot easier to find a mate though. Only question is do you sit down to pee, pee standing up?

salty, you need some lemon slices to go on those fillets on your BBQ, boss. Nice looking pictures, makes me hungry just looking at it.

Salty

2008-11-04 23:57:26

Actually, while it is my barbeque on my deck with my fish on it, a professional chef was in charge of cooking those for a gathering on my deck sponsored by the Longliners. I often have a bit of Yoshida's on some of the pieces. I usually also have collars, belly flaps, and the backbone on the grill so it looks quite different when I am doing it.

I enjoyed having a chef so much that I plan to hire one next time I have a big group over. It was great fun to be able to drink and visit with the guests instead of being busy cooking and serving.

yak2you2

2008-11-05 02:17:32

So am I imaginating it with the orange kings or has anyone else seen them? how about hermaphrodites, I'm curious how often that happens? The strange part to me is, only catching 2, the same summer, then no more for 12 years.

Last question for you Eric, what's the biggest king you've ever caught? How about your mom?

I've caught them in the high 60's before, but that was in nets. Alsek river kings are the biggest we have around here, but they won't take troll gear. No one I know has ever gotten a Dry bay king to bite in the ocean. People catch them in nets like crazy when their moving through, but nothing for trollers. Later, when they get in the river, sportys will be yanking them out left and right with the stupidest of tackle, I don't understand why? maybe I need to be trolling with golf tee's, or pixies. :roll: I think the biggest for me on a hook was mid 50's, but the one I'm thinking of, I never weighed individually to be sure, I'll always regret that by the way, unless I catch a bigger one.

cletelord

2008-11-05 02:46:24

My Grandfather lived in South Carolina in the teens and twenties.He would tell me that a couple of years when the local store received all white canned fish nobody would buy it.So they would put up a big sign that read " This fish guranteed not to turn pink"..And it would sell like crazy.

I catch between two and six whites a year,sportfishing here in South Puget Sound. Can usually tell by the different looking scales before cleaning the fish.

yak2you2

2008-11-05 04:51:57

I've always found it odd that white kings have such a hard time selling at certain times of the year. I know the fillet looks different in the display case and the consumer has a mind set that fresh salmon should be pink, but if you ask around, most chefs prefer to cook with whites. Salmon quality is judged largely by it's oil content, Copper river gillnet kings as a case in point, and whites have a lot more of it. It truly is ALL about the marketing, just like the store owners in cletelord's post had discovered. One guy who bought from me years ago had a marketing strategy of calling white kings "ivory kings," it seemed to work real well for him.

Salty

2008-11-06 03:02:27

There are a lot of questions cascading here:

1. Hermaphrodite kings; I have not caught one but my longtime troller friend who was here last night caught one years ago. It had a sac of milt and a sac with a few eggs in it.

2. Orange colored flesh in kings; I have caught kings of all different colors and most vary a bit. Coho are much more uniform. Chum also vary quite a bit. You didn't mention it but we occasionally catch marbled kings.

3. The biggest king I ever caught trolling was a 65 pound white in Salisbury Sound.

I weighed a 68 lb. for the Derby one year.

4. One of my two paying clients caught a 49" by 36" king off of Biorka when I was chartering.

5. My partner Buzz caught two kings over 80 lbs. dressed on the same day off of North Cape years ago. I have seen the pictures.

6. I caught more fish over 40 lbs dressed last year than I have in many years.

http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/news/x347034986/Giant-salmon-found-in-Sacramento-River

Here is a link to a big King from the Sacramento River this year.

yak2you2

2008-11-10 06:34:00

Speaking of white kings, is the co-op ( or any buyers in Sitka ) paying a different price for whites this winter? We have gotten even money for reds or whites for 4 or 5 years now, and I thought we were past it but, our little fly by night buyer quit and moved for health reasons leaving only our major processor, and leaving us the worse for lack of competition. We started out even at 7.00, but this week reds went up to 7.40, and whites didn't. If southeast is paying even or noticeably more, I might have to start making arrangements to start boxing them out again. What is the current king price there anyway? By this time last year we were at 8.00, sort of feels like were getting worked. Fishing's been decent, it just pisses me off that were still paying 5.65 a gallon for gas, and 5.90 for diesel while the rest of the country is below 2.00, and getting a dollar less per pound than we were at this time last year. The excuse were being handed is that whites aren't moving as well. Never hurts to check up when you've only got one buyer in town, make sure your not getting hosed,,,,,to badly.