Bathy Software - Forums Archive

Salty

2008-08-22 17:02:11

I don't recommend either Maxsea or Nobeltec, the two programs I have experience with. Maxsea is just rediculous in its learning curve and old fashioned quirks like no course up. Way more stuff and years of learning curve to become proficient in that program.

Nobeltec is just as problematic for completely different reasons. It is basically an airline company, a subsidary of Boing, with a bathy program more suited for yachting than commercial fishing. When we brought their representative to Sitka it became clear to us that those of us using the program were light years ahead of the company representative in the way we were using the program.

I have several partners with the program. Three of us are using it every day and sharing information and ideas. I could not use it without this input on everything from correcting malfunctions to figuring out glitches. We have a computer genius in our group who in his regular job has four computers and monitors on his desk. He is indispensable to us in using the program. My other young partner has also been able to help figure out how to manipulate the color chart in a way that is critical to successful use of the program. So, out of 7 people in my immediate group using the program only 3 are using it. I have talked to a couple of other people in the fleet using the program and I just helped a guy figure out how to use the color bars. Without this knowledge the program is practically useless at the level we want to use it for tight troll drags through pinnacles.

The other problem is that you need to be fishing completely by yourself or with a couple of other people at a similar level of proficency and with similar data to make use of it. You can not make good use of it on a drag with other trollers using 2D data because you see the drag and the way you want to fish it so differently after you learn how to manipulate the program. It creates immediate conflicts like for example when you start threading your way through a traditional 18 fathom drag with 24 fathoms out and immediately force the guys on the 18 fathom backtack out further than they think they should have to go. Or when you are threading your way through some 20 fathom pinnacles like here at Vitskari rks. and the guys fishing 18 are completely unaware and even though you have the right of way they inadvertently crowd you onto the edge.

We just had a very humerous experience the other day when we found some chums in a pinnacle patch and were fishing 24 -30 fathoms of wire through it after mapping it with the 3D. Trollers using 2D tried to join us and we got to experience the sight of 10 or more flashers flying at 8 knots for several minutes from several different trollers.

I highly recommend the program if you have a couple of young computer guru's in your group or are one yourself and can figure it out. I do not recommend it if you waited years and are still struggling with 2D. 2D is something almost everyone can use quickly. 3D is a completely different tool. I recommend and could use some sophisticated training to use it efficiently.

mswkickdrum

2008-08-25 06:09:33

From flying I was familiar with Jeppsen, and Nobeltec is the

nautical navigation department so to speak. They wanted

the boat dollars too. Boeing wanted to own the aero stuff

and got the nautical in the deal. I have been looking at the

bathy recorder software and was wondering what results if

any, that you guys were having.

Its weird that they don’t see the commercial potential with

this. Also part of why you guys were WAY beyond

the in shop guys may have something to do with this,

isn’t it interesting that NOAA doesn’t have bath

charts for areas of AK that aren’t thought of as “oil producing”?

Some folks I talked to in asking about the program and

the available bath carts, are “wondering” where Nobeltec

(and others) are getting the bath data. It would be a VERY

cost prohibitive thing to map all that SE area out at a

competitive price point, so they must be getting the info

“somewhere” from some gov. or giant corp. source.

Would satellite info be good enough at civilian levels?

So that may be part of the lack of “stick time” knowledge

from the in shop guys.

They may have just had a source for the data and figured

they could sell it, and then also sell the software to make

it yourself too without much thought of how to service

the customer of it. Thanks for the post Salty, I now

know the learning curve and practical knowledge needed

with it is as expected. What software helps with “lure

selection” ha ha ha.

MSW

gofish

2008-08-26 05:41:31

Salty,

Thanks for your post. I have the standard nobeltec and it would be the easiest and cheapest to go with them.

I wanted to see what other fishermen were using. Since the data is accumlative I want to pic something that I am likely to stick with. Have you heard of anyone using Olex. Their software is suppose to be designed for the commercial fishermen and it has some nice features. One drawback is that it runs on Linux. I have an email program that I also run on my laptop that will probably not run on Linux. Thanks again you are a wealth of knowledge as usual.

gofish

Salty

2008-09-15 22:43:35

Just back from an extended trip to Cross Sound. I have been conversing with a young guy who inherited my sons computer 3d program when he bought his boat. He is using it successfully and had a couple of really good suggestions for me to make it easier to read the bottom contours.

The bathy data that comes with the program is not accurate in the detail we need it. It does not have a lot of the pinnacles and the edges are not defined like what we want. It is good enough as a starting point and it is entertaining to observe the program updating the depth as you drive along. If it is actually deeper than shown it is like plowing a field with your tracks, if it is shallower than shown it is like laying a bead of silicone or leaving a trail of pebbles. After a few hundred passes over the same area, like on the winter line at Cape Edgecumbe it all becomes smoothed out into the correct depths.

Using the program leads to some interesting behavior modification. Like fishing shallower than you normally would so you can map the tops of all the pinnacles and edges. Then fishing deeper than you normally would after you have it all mapped. It also creates for some interesting opportunities to try and fish where no troller has ever drug that much gear before. That inevitably leads to lost leads. It also becomes critical that the crew actually sets the gear at the exact depth the skipper says he wants. Because an extra fathom and a half on a wire means a lost lead when you are slipping by that 4 fathom spot with 24 out.

But, it is kind of fun when it does work and you dig a few big kings out of a pinnacle patch that you would not have fished before. I upgraded both my RAM and my video RAM this summer and that helped the computer keep up better.

On the lures. I was thinking about my lures the other day. I have custom made flashers, two different companies making custom tape for them, custom painted king spoons in two sizes, a tuna hook customized for my herring hooks, custom painted chrome coho spoons, I don't use monofilament leader anymore, my chum bugs are a unique mixture of some crappie lures I found and modified special order michael baits, and I have just finished testing and have decided to order enough custom made and finished hooks for all my hoothies, bugs, and most of my spoons next year. I will still be using standard made king plugs, hootchies, and a standard coho hootchie. I have decided to change leader lengths and the way I rig my hootchies this year so I have hundreds of hootc!hies all tied up in zip lock bags that I have never used and now am not likely to ever use. AAAgjrj/!

Katlian

2008-09-20 01:37:52

The bathy charts that nobeltec provides are only a graphic representation of their vector charts. They have applied a fancy algo to produce them. There is no more or less data on their stock 3d charts than you will find on the free noaa charts. I asked noaa last fall if they would be using their fancy orbital radar or side scan sonar to map SE alaska. The told me that most of their mapping is tasked based on commecial traffic. Even though there are a lot of trollers out there, we do not compare to the traffic in Juan de Fuca.

I have used the bathy recorder for a couple of years. I have repeatedly upgraded by computer to the fastest hardware available. It is still a clunky program that freezes on its own while the rest of the operating system is running smoothy. There are also a couple of suicide switches in the system that come set from the factory to let you fail. They should label them, "warning if you press this button, your system will crash". Also do not attempt to dump an old 2d data file into a 3d system. That also will crash everything. Enjoy.