outfitting - Forums Archive

yak2you2

2008-08-05 03:44:56

Oh man, where to start.... What kind of motor do you have? Do you have a steering console? If not, better get a locking arm so you can set your outboard and have it steer straight for you while your cranking. What kind of gurdies? 1/8th" wire, 6 to 9 ft. stops. 25 lb. balls. Make sure you have some kind of break away straps between your wire and your balls, you'll roll yourself right over if you hang up. At least a good handheld GPS, garmin GPSMAP 76 with the chip for your area is best. You have to know where you and everything else is... A depth finder of some kind, and a good VHF.

I don't know where your planning on fishing, but a rookie really should start out with not much more than 60 to 80 ft of wire out, or you'll risk crossing up if your in alot of current, and that will be plenty of gear to keep you busy if there's any fish. Figure about 6 or 8 spoons with a 6 ft. leader of 120 lb. mono. 2 or 3, 11" hotspot flashers tied up with 2 fms. of leader, per side, plus, an entire spare side at least, just in case you lose a side of gear. Be a bummer to lose out on half a days fishing over a few hooks. Everybody, no matter who they are, drops gear over the side by not snapping it right sooner or later, so plan on it. To that end, it's a good idea to have 3 knives, and 3 gaffs, for the same reason.

Order ac/dc spoons #4's, or tequila sunrise #4's, maybe some lemon/limes #4's. put on some # 5 or 6 Mustad straight point XX's. 4.25" scrambled egg hoochie, or maybe a 141R hoochie, same size. Sharpen your hooks good.

Poles should be out about 45 degrees from your mast, and guided off to the mast, and fore and aft, with either cable or 1/4 in. poly, minimum. You'll need an insulator on a line rigged so it just touches the water at trolling speed, hanging from the tip of your pole. Then, some doughnuts tied up with hanging twine to loop into one of your stops to swing out into the insulator.

Clean and adjust your gurdies often, make sure they're working smoothly.

Rig up a cleaning trough so your not bending over to clean your fish, and a shoot under it to take all the blood and guts over the side. Refine your system so you move fish as few as times as possible. About 2.5 Knots to 3 knots troll speed, depending on current.

Start early, leave late, watch for the rest of the fleet, and always watch for birds.

mswkickdrum

2008-08-07 21:01:37

Whoah……. You and Salty are like encyclopedias on this stuff. Could I get the

Full version of that.. It seems like the cliff notes version…though very informative.

Also could you do one on power trolling? I don’t know what tackle to start stocking

Up on. The business of the tackle seems to be way different then what I’m used

To with sport tackle. I google all those “no longer available” ones Salty spoke of

but get nothing. I have some info for you on the Kolstrand hand gurdies, went down

and spoke to past employee, got the “whole story”. Will post in that string later

when I verify all the info I got. Your posts, and Salty’s are SUPER helpful. Just

about to close a deal (hopefully) on my starter boat.... which (hopefully again)

will be fallowed by closing a deal on a replacement engine for it. Sounds just

like commercial fishing as I remember it....and being warned about it all

over again by relatives/family friends.

MSW

yak2you2

2008-08-08 08:02:40

I love to talk shop about fishing of all kinds. If you call up a knowledgeable gear store like Murray Pacific they can be very helpful too, especially when ordering gear. You can just say some of the common dock names, like ac/dc or tequila sunrise, and they'll know exactly what your talking about. It's a tough thing to tell people what kind of gear to order. It seems to me that each place seems to have certain lures that fish better. Your best off to talk to an old salt in your area. Most everyone develops their own opinions on what works better, as an example... I prefer to fish with all snubbers, on everthing. My theory is, that it helps keep my average up by avoiding rip outs, alot of guys don't buy that theory and still use snaps, matter of opinion,,,and how much money you feel like spending.It's hard enough to get anything beyond the basic essential gear out of a fisherman when sworn to secrecy, let alone get one to post it on the internet, and I am no different. It never hurts to ask though, the worst you'll get is the silent treatment on some issues.

As far as rigging up for power trolling, i'm sure many other guys would be much more help than I would. I wish I new alot more about posting stuff. I was thinking about posting some pictures of how to rig up, but i'm not sure how to get them out of my camera, let alone on to a site. I just need to go get some basic computer lessons one of these days I guess.

Walk the docks, see how your neighbors are tied up, bring your tape, take some notes. If your crossing over from sport you'll have get used to running heavier gear. I never go lighter than 120 lb. with gurdies. I have gone lighter, and I have caught better, I've also had fish break the lighter stuff and leave me bummed. When you here the bells go off, run out and see your spring pumping hard, and see a big one come up from 4 spreads down and break the surface while swimming around with your cannon ball, it sure is nice to know your tied in with 120 lb test and a #7 XX. But again, it's all opinion, I know lots of guys who argue that they wind up with more on avg. running lighter tackle, i'm just not a believer.

Each species of fish requires different gear, which handles differently. Ask lots of questions.

yak2you2

2008-08-08 11:42:40

Alot of guys cranking out of skiffs now a days have refined it a step further from my days in the skiff, and it sure looks simple and effective to me. They have heavy duty, gusseted, aluminum davits that stick out about 5 or 6 feet over each side, with the gurdy mounted right to it. They can take the whole rig in and out of their boats in about 10 minutes, if they have other needs, and it eliminates the need for a mast and all the wires and stuff that gets in the way in so small a space. I've seen proven fisherman use them for a few years now, and they seem to hold up, I think If I were going to go in a skiff, thats what I'd do. Some guys still use a line with an insulator, but alot of them just have the wire running through a block, hanging from a spring on the end of their super davit, looks pretty simple. I'm working on some pictures.

A few other thoughts for skiffers. Get a bucket or a folding chair or something to sit on, standing all day through slow times just adds unneeded ware to an already labor intensive fishery. A comfortable fisherman will always outlast an uncomfortable one. A simple piece of plexiglass for a window if you have a console. A cocoa mat to stand on. A simple little 4'X4' tin roof sticking back from your rack if you have one keeps the rain/snow off your work area, makes all the difference. And always, always, sharpen your knives. Gutting is so much easier with a knive, rather than a bayonet, and in the end, the industry comes away with alot better product.

I do have lots of good advice, but i'm not anywhere near the league that Salty's in. That man is the pontiff of trolling. If you want to know something about rigging up , or ordering yourself up some gear, or anything to do with fishing, he is surely the one to listen to.

Jon

2008-08-08 14:10:34

I fish out of Pelican and any chartreuse spoon seems to work well. I think that the over chrome versions are worth the extra money as they'll keep fishing many times longer then the normal spoons and perhaps the extra flashiness helps too. My favorite's are #4 Manistee's with a #6 hook although like yak said, I'd go with a #7 if i had the right spoons for them. chartreuse, chart/black dot, chart/fire dot, are all good. I've also migrated to 120#, up from 80# originally, on 1.5 fathom spreads.

Red or green flashers w/42" leaders and any green hoochie... I guess I like green. :)

yak2you2

2008-08-08 22:34:20

I'm curious Jon, do you ever run into a guy named Charlie Mason in Pelican much? He and I have been Friends for years and years. I see him up this away every few years. Just curious how it goes for him these days.Absolutely over chrome is a must for me too. Do you use ac/dc's around Pelican much Jon? pink with black dots on one side yellow with black dots on the other for those who are taking notes, is an ac/dc, and, if I could only have one spoon to fish cohos with for the rest of my life that would have to be the one. Next to that, I like a light green/yellow slant 50/50 with black dots. Drug around for cohos, I've even caught quite a few kings on this spoon. I have many of both rigged up, and on board, and i'll fish pink and yellow on one side, green/yellow on the other. If one side starts to fish much better than the other, which do to water conditions will happen here alot, I'll switch to all that color for the day. I have a couple other colors I dabble in, but that really is about all the spoons I ever really find myself pulling for cohos. Learn from my mistake on this one, don't put hooks on a thousand spoons and leave them hanging all over your boat. Especially Stainless hooks, as crazy as that sounds.Looks cool and all, but what happens is when you bend the hook eye closed it gets a spot somewhere in the bend that will get rusty and brittle. Just a tiny little spot, that you'll hardly even notice, sometimes just from hanging around over the winter on the boat, and it will fail. I don't know why, I guess just because S.S. is so brittle. If your not fishing your gear for a while, wash it off with fresh water and take it home, get it away from the marine environment. Same goes for King spoons. I like alot of shiny spoons for kings, and it's a never ending battle to keep them shiny as I can. Wipe them off with a towel on their way in for the day, and on their way out in the morning. If allowed to dry, saltwater turns into a white crust on your silverware that can be a hassle to get off. If this does happen, a hard water inhibitor like CLR is the best I've found for taking it off. If you use abraisives, you'll shorten the life of the spoon considerably. Stick with Gold, or a gold/chrome combo, fighting brass tarnish will put a guy in a straight jacket. what frames in gold/chrome is a matter of personal choice, i think. I have them all, and I've ran them all, and they just about all catch. if one is fishing better for a guy than another, I suspect it's the boat speed that makes the lure pull differently, more than it is anything else. I like Katchamacs, but since their getting tougher to come by, i'm getting stingy with putting them into harms way. Emeralds still seem pretty plentyful, and i've caught a lot of kings on those little spoons over the years. Again, I have caught fish on just about every frame made, so pick your own.

I've pulled green hoochies around up here, they don't do as well as others for some reason. We have alot of glaciers, and the water is generally siltier than elsewares. I used to swear by the scrambled egg (yellow with orange speckle) for cohos, and I still will pull one around once in a while but I've come with some better stuff over the years. This much I'll give, they look alot like my spoon colors. I run all #7 hooks on my hoochies. It helps to have a bunch of different colors tied up, and kept seperate in ziplocks so you can go rummage around for a new flavor once in a while. Purple haze is a very well known and well liked hoochie all along the whole westcoast, seems like. I've caught kings and cohos on it. Getting creative with your hoochies helps. There's alot of toys out there for this....gumpuckeys, twinkle skirts, etc.

Flashers. Some of the new stuff out there on the market has all of it's colors and reflectors incased with in it. I will be buying all these in the future, for one main reason, the reflective tape doesn't get all scratched off, they last along time. There does appear to be a difference running the new cracked glass.

yak2you2

2008-08-09 00:59:45

We can't have a gear discussion without discussing bait. An old mentor of mine once told me... "If a dog can smell a thousand times better than a human, than a fish can smell a thousand times better than a dog". Meaning, smell suspends itself in water for long periods of time, and fish are made for tuning that in from very long distances. More often than not, there is NOTHING that will fish quite like a properly rigged herring. Sometimes they're not whats wanted, but not often. The key is,,, usually they're not needed to catch cohos, their not as forgiving as hoochies and spoons in that they can spin like a propeller if not towing right, and if you fish them in an area of high trash fish abundance you'll wear yourself out reeling in low dollar fish- and run out of herring.

If their not towing right, you won't catch a thing with them. Purists swear that threading is the ONLY way to go, but I recommend easy baiters for the novice. They DO work, and their fast. It's rare that I ever feel like I have to thread or cut plugs, unless I'm rod fishing, and having one of 'my get in touch with the fish moments'. Lightly salting your herring will toughen them up. and help keep them towing straight. Always toss your herring over, and watch it tow for a minute, make sure it has the action you want. If your into losing a lot of fish you could try treble hooks, otherwise, stay away from them,,,in my opinion, there are those who can, and do argue with me about that one though.

For a hundred years herring and superior spoons was all the old timers ever used, there's a reason they didn't deviate from that.

Jon

2008-08-09 14:59:41

Yep, Charlie is here most of the summer, longlining and trolling the Oceanaire. He's doing very well, his kids are always running around the docks with fishing poles in the water like I did when I was a kid :)

Yep, I'm towing some ac/dc's around right now. I usually don't run them if there are a lot of pinks around, apparently they love the color pink. green/yellow slant is Angie's favorite, her side is full of them and they catch well, although the ones we have aren't O/C. Another good one is the Rasta spoon... ya dig da rasta spoon mon? :D

Ditto on the gold/chrome king spoons... I'm waiting for the right sucker to come along and take all my brass ones off my hands, lol. Although I would like to try hitting them with clear spray paint, but I have my doubts as to how long a coating would last anyways.

I run #8's on my hoochies for kings (and coho's... maybe I'm lazy, but they seem to catch fine). The #8's don't pull out of a coho mouth like a #6 will, they embed deep.

okay time to go browse nikka! no buying though... i have too much gear as it is.

yak2you2

2008-08-09 15:39:50

While your browsing, might as well go check out pacificnetandtwine.com, world's largest hoochie selection. The clear paint works. if you put on a few good coats it will keep your spoon completely sealed. The hitch is, once they get tooth scratches, the scratch marks will tarnish. I can usually get a few fish out of them before they have to go. I mostly use them in the winter when I never see any trash fish. I figure if I get even 1 good 100 + dollar fish out em' before I gotta heave them, it's worth it.

lol, I've never used a Rasta spoon, Rasta bowl maybe in days gone by, but never a rasta spoon, I dunno, I can't remember... :shock:

Angie

2008-08-09 18:18:19

It's really a toss up between the tequila sunrises and the green/yellow slant or me. Our boat came with #3 pink and green ac/dc's with big black dots. I think they work awesome for clatters provided you throw a flasher or two in the mix. The original owner had them made but I don't know if they are still a special order thing or if they sell them somewhere. I'd love to run more but Jon isn't into them and they also kind of annoy me when I am running gear because they are so small and the hook seems to tangle with the spoon when throwing the gear back out.

yak2you2

2008-08-10 00:30:04

Those sound like they might work well behind flashers Ange. I love running spoons with flashers, something about the combo action works good for me. They hold up better than hoochies too, as far as wear goes. I've got a couple of giant #5 ac/dc's i picked up in a horse trade somewhere, they catch too. That does sound like a fishy color combo, but i bet you would probably have to special order them.

yak2you2

2008-08-10 05:16:13

Well,,, Jon, how bad did you hurt yourself in pacificnetandtwine.com??? LOL, my hands shake when I even think about surfing that place. So many colors....so little money. My wife figures we could have sent one of our kids to college with what I've spent in that place over the years. My thinking is... without the sheepskin holding them back, I might be able to get one of em a job as a checker over there so I can get a discount.

Jon

2008-08-10 14:17:30

Nothing as of yet. I like to load up my shopping cart with what I would like to buy... and then not buy anything... I guess you'd call it window shopping ;D

I've got to go brew some coffee and throw the trinkets in the water now... last day before closure, yay!

groundhogcove

2008-08-11 16:36:13

fsjw15 asked the question I've been meaning to.

I have a similar situation. My son and I just bought a handtroll permit and we want to outfit our 24ft aluminum skiff. We have been building a cabin near Point Couverden in Icy Strait. Every summer while pounding nails we watch the trollers on the drag in front of our place. Now the cabin is almost done, so it's time to go fishin'.

Yak, that davit system you described sounds perfect. Could you post some pictures? I have aluminum poles, Mast, etc. that a friend gave to me, but I think my boat is to narrow & tippy to use them. Probably should trade them for some hand gurdys.

A big thanks to all the old timers who take the time to spell things out for us dummies.

yak2you2

2008-08-11 18:29:01

Jon, can i e-mail you some pics to post? sorry for the inconvenience, I just don't have a clue how to run any of this stuff. I'd still be using my same old 35mm camera if could find any film for it. I take pictures with my digital, then i hand it to my wife who puts them into our computer, then I e-mail them to myself, and forward them to you. LOL, gettin harder all the time to keep up.

yak2you2

2008-08-12 03:02:00

I now have pictures of small handtroll rigs in my mailbox, for anyone who wants, I can e-mail them to you. i'm trying to set up an account at photo bucket so I can post them on here, hang in there. lotta new tricks for an old dog.

groundhogcove

2008-08-12 03:37:54

Yak, please email me the pics. My email is: thai /at /gci /dot / net. Do you get my drift? I can't put my actual email or the spambots will latch onto it.

yak2you2

2008-08-12 06:12:36

On their way. The skiffs with the davit/outriggers have them pulled inboard while moored. When they head out they'll pull a pin and swing them out. I also included a shot of a skiff with traditional rigging. The little red bayliner is the Mai Tai, my ride. You'll notice one guy has some real light looking outriggers, I talked to him, he has a solid steel insert inside the aluminum pipe for strength. Alot of the guys have the outriggers fastened to a plate which is strapped around their back seat. UPDATE- I just got a daemon looks like my e-mails were to big for your mailbox, do you have another e-mail? I've just got to figure out how to get them posted. I'm having a hard time shrinking them down to size. Sorry.

Bill M

2008-08-12 06:26:52

rather than photobucket try an acct. with http://www.flickr.com I'd like to see what you are up to and the interface is much easier to use.

Once you get them up here you can either click "all sizes" and scroll down to the second bar which is the image location, right click and copy, then come here and type is like this

[ img ] http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3288/2743621852_be08fb467d_b.jpg [/img ]

note.

Remove the spaces from in between the brackets. and when you do so the picture will auto post like this

~~[img="~~http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3288/2743621852_be08fb467d_b.jpg" alt=""]

I'll trade you all the technical knowledge in the world for trolling help.

Bill

yak2you2

2008-08-12 06:38:30

Might be faster if I e-mail them to someone else to post, I'm lost.

yak2you2

2008-08-12 11:04:42

That is a wonderful picture Bill. I'm going to make a screen saver out of that one,,,,as soon as I figure out how to. :roll: What help is it your looking for?

yak2you2

2008-08-12 12:56:01

Bill M

2008-08-12 19:49:06

well after some deliberation I have figured that unless you get financing of the owner sort it's pretty tough to get a bank to loan on a boat. Unless you have immaculate credit and a sizable down too. I don't mind starting out small and keeping my day job although I'd rather get right in on a 38' + power boat. Who wouldn't? I have heard some talk about the state working with permits but was curious how to go about that process?

yak2you2

2008-08-13 00:10:50

Bill, there is only 2 entities which can except any part of your limited entry permit( no matter which kind) as collateral. State of Alaska division of investments, and a bank called CFAB, which stands for commercial fishing and agriculture bank. Both can be found with a simple search for an online application. Generally your looking at 10- 20% down, and they will carry the rest. They want to see experience in the planned fishery, an economic and fishery plan, profit and lost statement, your mother's maiden name, your underwear size,,,,, But at least you can use your permit as collateral.

groundhogcove

2008-08-13 20:19:10

Yak, thanks for the davit pictures. The boat with the aft wheelhouse looks a bit like mine. It seems like the gear would get tangled easily since the wires aren't very far apart. Do you have to use shorter leaders, or will standard gear work?

yak2you2

2008-08-14 00:36:22

Some of the guys have davits that are a couple of feet wider on each side, but none of them really have any problems with it. If you look closely, you'll notice that the guy your talking about has a small side planer tied in just above each ball. Theses are designed to pull the wire away from the boat in opposite directions. These little planers are fairly new around here and the guys who've been using them love them. I've never tried a set, looks like more drag to me, and I don't have any need for a wider stance, but most of the guys have just a normal rig, and I've never really heard of much complaining about it.

Towards the end of my skiff career I fished for a couple of years with just a little set of davit arms like you see on the Mai Tai, sticking out the side of my skiff rack, never had any problems with cross over. I don't really remember why I left my 15 ft. poles off, to lazy to up and down each time I pulled it out of the water I suppose, but it did work fine.

One of my friends has an exact rig like your talking about, and he reads here every day. He would be a good one to ask if I can talk him into not being so shy.

yak2you2

2008-08-15 06:16:07

Ok, I put some of my old skiff pictures in the photo thread. You can see from the gillnetting shot how I had my rack set up. I really like the openess that this rack style provides. I have a 15 ft. set of poles that I would stand up while trolling most of the time, but I actually did fish it quite a bit as shown, sometimes as much as 20 fms.,never had to much trouble with cross ups, but if your not going to be converting it back and forth like I was, why not use poles? If your boat is the same size as mine, you've got plenty of stability for poles.I still have this rack for my skiff, as a back up plan to my other boat.

Notice my little removeable cleaning trough. Little dogs slide right in behind the hand rail, beveled slide takes the gurry over the side, then the whole rig slips right out for the next haul from that side. Having your trough set at just the right height is key, or you'll get a sore back. THINK! before you build! I, am left handed, so your trough will likely have the gill notch opposite of mine.