Future of Trolling
Kaunolu
2008-06-20 04:30:36
Do any of you have any input on tthe future of trolling. I know no one has a crystal ball but I imagine some people have some ideas. We have found a few boats we are interested in. I could not wait to find the right boat last year at this time when there were not any. Now there are a few out there and my feet are getting cold. We both are used to long hard days and are not planning on making a lot. Just looking to put in an honest days work for a decent return and not have to answer to anybody.
Fuel prices and the amount of reported salmon out there has me a little worried. Buying a boat and permit this year to have the season close or fuel to go up even more would break us. Anyone have any thoughts on the next 5 -10 years.
Thank you for your time and I hope you are catching.
Salty
2008-06-20 16:31:44
I would not recommend buying a boat and coming up now. By the time you bought a boat, personalized it a bit, etc. and ran up here you would miss this summers first Chinook opening. If you bought a boat here in Sitka ready to go tomorrow then I would consider it.
Abundance is down but prices are up. Even idiots can scratch up 5-10 king salmon a day ( I prove that nearly every time I go) and the guys in Southern Chatham are scratching 15-25 a day all month. With each king still worth over $90.00 the income is adding up.
I don't expect either the coho abundance or price to be great this year. But, with the floods in the midwest and overall price pressures on meat and fish I expect the long term prices to be strong. Chum prices will be the best in years but there will be unprecedented effort in Sitka and it will compromise production both individually and by the troll fleet as a whole. Long term the fact that trollers are way below their allocated share of the value of the Alaska Hatchery Harvest and gillnetters are way ahead means the Board of Fisheries will be considering and eventually acting to move more alaska hatchery harvest value to trollers. This will benefit both coho anc chum trollers.
Trolling is a great life style if you do it all spring, all summer, and into the fall. It is not fun to just participate in the high pressure, high effort summer fishery. Scratching kings in isolated bays, taking naps every day, wrestling with a big one every once in a while ( I caught a 43.5 dressed one this week) or working the tides for fall coho's in one of the straights is a wonderful way to make a living. Jousting with a bunch of other trollers on a crowded drag or tacking 2-3 miles back and forth off shore in 20 westerly for 100 or so coho a day is just not a fun thing.
Because we produce such a high quality product and have the ability to harvest coho, chum, chinook, and pinks the long term looks good to me. The Government has to figure out how to manage the guided sport fleet or we are in real trouble though.
Not to beat a dead horse because I know some people are tired of hearing about how bad the charter fleet is to the resource but I have a a few very close friends who work for the Fish and Game as creel counters. What they tell me is very discouraging. For you that don't know, these creel counters sit at the top of the docks and when a sport fisherman comes into the dock they walk down to the boat interview the captain. They get all kinds of information which includes how many fish they caught and what species as well as what area they fished. In any case the creel counters I talked to said that most days they can only talk to 1 in 7 boats. And that 1 out of 7 50% of those that are surveyed have already flayed those fish out and stuff them in fish boxes. So the actual data that the fish and game analyzes to decide quotas for the sport sector and is an educated guess at best. I am not sure how old the methods are but new ones have to be implemented or we the trollers who's numbers are accurate are going to keep taking bigger cuts. My point is the sport sector are allocated 20% but no one knows how much they are taking. My educated guess says they are going over. Salty is very right. The government has to figure a way to regulate them because the charter industry will definitely not figure out a way to regulate themselves. I am not exactly sure how to go about fighting them. There are so many groups out there its hard to know which ones are most effective. I guess just do what you can.
Salty
2008-06-21 21:10:53
One thing to do for sure is to join the Alaska Trollers Association. They are our best voice.
Kaunolu
2008-06-22 16:51:52
Salty and Nemo
Thank you for the information. It is helpful. Jill and I feel the need to make a decision soon. Getting a little tired working for others, but nervous about taking the risk of making the payment. We know we enjoy the lifestyle,work, and S.E.
yak2you2
2008-06-23 06:41:46
Why do you feel you have to jump from the high plank? How about keeping your day jobs for a couple of years, buy a small starter boat and a hand troll permit, and fish on your days off and leave time?? True, you have to keep working, but you still get to fish,(and eat), and you build up equity in your small outfit that you can cash out of later when your ready go all out. There's alot of weekend hand trollers out there that do just fine fishing, and, they have a job to sponsor it with. I know several guys who fish out of a skiff with sport poles that make 30K a year around their jobs. One HUGE tip, For this type of operation, keep it small, and make it fast. A part timer has no buissness pushing the weather, so get something thats easy to pull in and out of the water on a trailor so you don't have to deal with it while your working. Fast so you can race to the grounds for a few hours in the A.M. before work, and race out after work for a few hours.
Trust me, just a couple hours fishing each day, can make suffering thru a job a whole lot easier. :D
Kaunolu
2008-06-23 10:36:58
Yak2you2
I appreciate all your input and everyones on this site. We did think about starting small hand trolling ran the numbers and it seemed to make more sense power trolling. We have worked for so many other people over the years , we need to do our own thing. I just got off the phone with a friend and he was getting ready to bed down for the night at Soapstone and described an epic evening. Here we sit in our living room exhausted working for somebody else and my wife is cranky about a co worker. It seems there is always a bad apple at a jobsite.
As for the boat I want as safe and comfortable as we can afford. I am little nervous now with the way the world seems to be. We are at that age 34 and 32 where the choices we make now will stay with us and make or break us.
We want to be at Icy Point and Deer harbor. There is an area near Whale Pass I am dying to try trolling through. I have a tendency to over analyze things in life especially if it involves money. So I am hoping to find the perfect boat one we will fish the next 20 years. I want to do everything I can to avoid rebuilding an engine at the dock on an opener a plank blowing out and our boat sinking. I know there will be good, bad,and ugly days just hoping for more good.
I truly appreciate this forum and all the advice that is so freely given, knowledge that has taken people 30 to 40 years to learn. We still are in Southeast working and looking for a fiberglass troller in the 48ft range.
Thank you everyone
John
yak2you2
2008-06-24 02:56:49
Well, I can certainly sympathize with were your at. Sounds like you've got the right idea. If your going to jump in, might as well get a good boat the first time.
I would consider getting one that's set up to do other things too, so you can put some more eggs in your basket. You'll be pretty well spent it sounds like, so IFQ's won't happen right away, but you could longline for P. cod, thats been pretty hot for a lot of guys right now. Maybe think about a small dungeness thing, or shrimp pots. I'm just saying, give yourself some other avenues besides salmon, bad years DO happen, and banks and hungry kids are pretty unforgiving.
It is inspiring to see young folks still trying to get into fishing though, gives me hope, I wish you all the best of luck.
Salty
2008-06-25 15:43:33
Don't try to do too much. The enjoyment of being good at even one thing is worth a great deal.
shakers
2008-07-21 17:39:26
Its tough to know what to do....there is no easy way to do it and i think the hardship is part of the experience.
3 years ago i bought a 48 foot wood troller from a man who was sick of fishing. i had a permit lined up to lease and a steady job in the winter to support my fishing habit. No wife or kids at the time. seemed like a good point to try and jump in.
The boat needed a bit a work. Hull and machaineery seemed good. but had sat for a year of more. the boat gremlins did their magic.
first trip out the wheel fell off in olga straights. I spent more than a week rowing dive gear and tools back and forth from town to measure and put a new prop on. (use a double nut system)
The shaft was a non standard taper and the new prop would not fit.
ordered new shaft had it cut keyed and coupled by mick dimond. whiile waiting on the shaft I had it hauled and scraped paint. oh what suprises revealed themselves from the cloak of enamel.
After 3 planks, recorking and fastening 70 percent of the boat. it was ready for the water.
but the season was over and permit dried up.
This was only the begining of a long saga; still to this day of putting out Fires---succcesses and disapopintments.
over the past three years.
new wheel house
Motor
tranny
engine logs
shafts, stuffing box, electronics,
countless beams, planks, seams and fasteners.
hydraulics (a malfucntion led to an engine room fire, scary)
rewired mast to bilge
A common story, of old boat whoas.
When you get out on clear day and the water rolls past your planks, the motor growling in the background, chatter from the box and fish floppin in the checkers. you forget about the time spent cleaning sludge out of the shaft alley or yanking a 6-71 out into the hold.
For me I figured, if i worked hard for two years on the boat and fished as a small sideline i could get in on the state loan. Not so. They still want 20% down a pretty good size chunk of change. And the old boat is difficult to use as collotoral.
now the boat runs and looks good but still no permit.
So, i guess its Cod or, Boat for sale and desk job, again---
Makes my stomach turn to think about going back to button shirts and carrying papers around, sitting in meetings.
If you have never done it before Crew for a couple of seasons, the things learned will more than make up for the seemly less dollars for work.
If I had it all to do again. I would have saved and saved and saved built up the money to get a boat in better shape and permit, even if by hand. or, like the yak man says. small weekend operation and desk job to be cashed in later for a down.
like any business it takes money.
if it was not for the support of friends, family and Capital one. And you can not forget the wealth of knowledge and support of fellow sailors even if it is just "have you tried......or, give______a call he had the same problem a few years back"
its the help and people along the way that embodies the spirit of our state.
I hope my story helps people looking to jump in.
yak2you2
2008-07-21 19:17:37
Shakers, have you considered a partner for a few years? I see an add in the for sale section, guy with a permit looking for a boat, maybe you guys should link up for a little while. Kill some fish, save up your down money, and go get your loan. I mean, your going to have to give a percentage for a crewman anyway, think of it as a crewman with a troll permit, half a season is better than no season.
Or, if your not into partners, consider this. There is a LOT of power troll permits out there, somebody, somewhere has to be sick, or to old fish. Run some adds looking for a medical transfer. just a couple of possible avenues for ya to think about.
gumpucky
2008-07-23 20:38:25
Or try handtrolling.Cheaper permit and makes a good colateral for state loan on power permit.
yak2you2
2008-07-23 21:30:02
Handtrolling is absolutely underrated. Getting over fish is 90% of the battle, I've seen lots of days when you couldn't in no way keep up with 2 lines let alone 4. There's no doubt that power has it's times where it really pays off, but fished effectively, a hand troller can do just fine. 9 months out of the year chasing winter kings, I actually give hand cranking the edge over power. 90% of your fish come one at a time, so it makes no difference how you get them to the boat, and a hand troller has the option of going to rods at those certain times when it's required. There's nothing quite like getting in on a good kelp bed bite with 3 rods going at the same time. Kinda like power sports fishing without all the bag limits and funny looking cloths.
Salty
2008-07-26 00:28:25
Virtues of hand trolling?????
Lets see, I hand trolled for about 10 years and I am sure I grossed less than $100,000 total. Probably less than $50,000.
I wore out my right wrist, elbow, and shoulder.
I had to quit several times in good bites because my fish box was full.
I got smoked so bad in some good bites by power trollers who didn't know half what I had forgot about how to catch salmon that it made me sick. Of course now that I am power trolling that still happens all the time.
If I had it all to do over again I would have moved that handtrolling be limited to four rods. No hand cranking machines. It would have been better for everyone. The joys of fishing with rods commercially is both an art and a joy. Cranking leaders and weights is both onerous and ultimately foolish. If you want to use multiple leaders on a line buy a power permit. And this comes from a guy who represented and fought for handtrollers rights for several years. I would support handtrollers using downriggers with rods.
Salty
2008-07-26 00:36:34
I say foolish because if you are good enough to catch fish on multiple wires and leaders then you can make your yearly payment on a power permit 3-4 thousand in one good day. With coho worth over fifteen dollars apiece 200 coho will make your payment.
yak2you2
2008-07-26 04:22:54
I'm not sure what it is that happens to folks when they buy a power troll permit, but more often than not it goes exactly this way. All of a sudden they become the elite, and any poor kid who's trying to get a foot hold in the industry by following the same stepping stones they used, is an idiot.
Salty, did you not read the letters posted above??? Sometimes people just don't have the money to step right into a fancy power troll set up, or, they don't have boat enough to support hydraulics. That doesn't mean that they are whale dung who should be fishing with a sport rod out of a Lund. There's a lot of good fisherman who make good money with hand gurdies, and it is the perfect way for young people to obtain enough money to advance should they choose to.
I'll grant you that hand cranking is hard work, and tough on the body, but some people handle it better than others, especially the young. Fishing with rods is great fun, and can be very effective at times when nothing else works, but when the bites on, they can no way keep up with gurdies with 10 or 15 hooks per side.
For some people, like me, a small hand troll set up is all they have time for. Sometimes, just a couple of hours each day.
As far your numbers go, I'm sorry that it didn't pan out for you during the decade that you did it, but again, thats not always how it goes. I know guys who have made 50k in a season hand trolling before. Why do you think the permit values are up to 10,000.00 ?? I know guys who put in 200 kings on this last 5 day opener hand cranking, I, am one of them. Or, to put it into perspective, I made more than enough to pay for a hand troll permit out of pocket, in 5 days.I also know alot of power trollers who didn't. But i'm not here to bag on power trolling, I hope to have one myself someday when I retire, looks like a perfect way of life for an old man.
I'm just saying that in the real world we're living in, where banks are folding left and right, finding a loan for a 35,000 permit. 45,000 boat, both at the same time, is going to be tough for somebody new to the game, if not impossible. Hand troll- 10,000, and a 10,000 boat and your in buissness. It sure beats sitting at the dock day dreaming about being a power troller. I respect what you've done for the industry, but give hand trolling a break, it's not quite the fools game you make it out to be.
Salty
2008-07-26 16:55:13
Yak, I love the response. Did you know that I fought hard for handtrollers to get a seat on the ATA Board. Did you know that I represented them for many years on the NPFMC AP, on the Sitka AC, and in many forums. That i most recently strongly supported their bid to use downriggers and rods in the winter troll fishery. I still have political scars with some of the oldtimers in the troll fleet for my advocacy for handtrollers.
I love your quote about whale dung. And don't ever think that I see myself as in a different class of troller because I have a power permit. My roommate at the last ATA Board meeting was the handtroll representative. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the hard working handtrollers and no doubt will be speaking up for them some time again in the future. And I know it would be tactful to keep my opinions to myself on this matter. If you read my mothers book then you will know that our family has never seen itself as elitist. Elitism to me is when you are so smug in your opinions that you don't honestly lay them out in forums like this or in discussions on the docks or in meetings.
Nevertheless I am too honest a guy to pretend that it is anything but foolishness to keep handtrolling when you just caught 200 kings in five days. 200 kings this year is more than enough to buy a set of hydraulics, gurdies, and a permit. I know a little bit about the challenge of putting together enough money to finance an outfit and the heartbreak when it gets difficult. I have been in a situation when I started power trolling where I owed over $70,000 on my boat and permit and they were worth less than $30,000. I have had the phone calls with the bank threatning to foreclose on my loan. I have made the tough decisions on whether to make house payments or boat payments in October.
Nevertheless when my youngest son graduated college and told me he wanted to go trolling I advised him to not even think about handtrolling. He had $2500 in savings. Without my help he turned that into a downpayment on an old wooden boat for 25,000 and made an arrangement on a power troll permit somehow. He faced another $25,000 in payments at the end of the season. He keeps his earnings confidential but I think he made over $100,000 every season he has been power trolling. He now has a nice aluminum boat and is looking to lease a freezer troller for the last half of the season. I can not begin to keep up with him anymore.
I know it is a different story in Yakutat, every place and every situation is unique. But these experiences are why i have my opinion on why good trollers should choose to power troll.
yak2you2
2008-07-27 05:43:56
Salty,
As I've stated before, Through mutual friends I've heard of what you've done for the industry, and yes, I've read your mother's book, loved it by the way. That's why it surprises me to hear you speak of legislating out of exsistence some of the ways we do things. Isn't that what we have the federal government for?
Today's fisherman already must tread water in an ever increasing ocean of red tape an buracreacy heaped on by the feds, DEC, state, ect.ect. just to try to eek out a living. Do we really need to talk about doing it to ourselves???
Allow me to use myself as an example for why we need hand trolling. I have a wife an 3 kids. I have a full time job, 4 days on, 4 days off, 6 pm to 6am. I need the benifits. Like most people in this country I simply can't afford health care without it. Around that I also gillnet a couple of days a week in the summer when the runs' on. For openers like the 5 day king opener i'll take annual leave, but for the most part I'll get off work, race out for 3 or 4 hours in the morning, scare up a few fish, and go home and go to bed. In order to do that, I have a converted 24 ft. bayliner with a 200 hp. outboard. I don't have any hydraulics, and a honda pack and power gurdies, along with fish would be to much weight for me. Not to mention that power trolling out of a 24 footer would be scetchy. I simply don't have anymore room on my plate for a big, slow, all day boat. I hope to some day, but not right now.I am older but my kids are not, so my lifestyle is not about to change in the very near future. But, I love my fishing. I go most everyday, all year long. I've been fishing for my whole life of 40 yrs, 15 of which has been trolling. My operation is small, simple, easy to repair cheaply, and effective. I would even dare to say that I am at the apex of what i'm capable of, givin my parameters. It's not about the money with me, I know perfectly well that I could make alot more power trolling, and I hope to someday, I just can't right now. What I don't need is anyone looking over my shoulder, legislating out any of my possibilities, for my(own good).
Over the years, I learned to live with my handicap of being a hand troller. I fish the little cracks that the power trollers can't get into. When I find a nice little feed ball I can drive right round and round it, while the power trollers have to keep on tacking. What I do, works for me. There's not a 150 coho day that goes by that my shoulder doesn't remind me how nice it would be to have hydraulics, but again, I enjoy what I do, or I wouldn't do it. I can only hope that the various agencies and organizations will allow me to continue to.
As far as including you in with some of the elitist power trollers that have come up this away over the years I'll apologize for that one, but after getting looked down upon, or pushed up on the reef so many times, A guy can develop a bit of a tude over time. Power trollers can run 6 lines up here, you don't have to try an run over the kid in the bayliner with his 2 little hand cranks. I never did understand why fishing has to be that phallic for some folks.
For anyone out there that wants to be a full time exclusive troller, I would recommend power trolling right away if you can afford it. If you can't, hand trolling for a couple of years until you can, will always beat sitting at the dock,,,in my opinion. I for one, am sure glad that there's an option to.
If your a part time troller like myself, do whatever you have time for and makes you happy, because thats what fishing is supposed to be all about, or at least it used to be.
Salty
2008-07-27 13:23:24
A very thoughtful post that gets right into the details. Good discussion and good fodder for someone considering getting into the troll business.
I still remember the time a power troller maliciously ran me on the beach in the Shark Hole my first year handtrolling that spot. It was part of an ongoing dispute between handtrollers and power trollers fishing the same drag. After I pulled up my broken wires and stacked all of my gear on deck and pulled my poles I somehow found myself on the front of my 19 foot fiberglass skiff jumping onto the back end of said troller. I still don't know what carnage was about to ensue but I was even in those days about 6'3", 240, a power forward type. Fortunately, and I never will forget this image, the perpetrator came out of the cabin and instead of shooting my ass, got on his knees and apologized. I came to my senses, said "Thank you" and climbed back into my skiff, put my poles back down, put on new leads and kept fishing.
One of the high points of my fishing career was after fishing three weeks on High Anxiety off of Three Hill Island mostly around two local Elfin Cove old time Handtrollers they both individually came up to me and expressed their appreciation for being so good to work with on the drag. Not that I have always been easy to fish around but in this case with these two skiff fishermen, actually one of the guys power trolls from an 18 foot wooden skiff but I think of him like a handtroller, we worked it out. My wife said it was the best compliment she ever heard me get.
I thought the power trollers were only allowed 6 lines in Federal Waters west of Spencer?
Now don't think for a minute that I am about to suggest any restrictions on handtrolling. But, it is an awful hard way to make it. It reminds me of my friends, one was a champion wrestler in college, who handlined halibut for years out of Sitka. There was a certain pride they had in hauling the lines old style directly up hand over hand without even a block to pull down on.
I am reading about the fishermen of Gloucester (sp?) and the dory fishing right now. What a tough way to make a living.
You know there is nothing that says you have to run four lines when you are power trolling or have a big boat.
I have often fished 6-9 fathoms of wire for both coho and kings. One of the most joyful opening days I ever had was running 9 fathoms in a tight pot hole full of big kings. The handtroller there, Harvey Kitka, two time Sitka Salmon Derby winner, chose to fish rods that day and it was a challenge making sure I never hooked one of his fish on my wires. But then he had his fish box full by noon and was gone. I would have loved to fish rods that day but alas, unless I purchase poles with electric reels we cant use rods.
I wish the weather was more conducive to fishing this morning but it is blowing 19 at the buoy and raining cats and dogs here right now.
I was just thinking about how a local handtroller doubled me one opening this spring in a fairly tight drag. I think I detected some pleasure when he was telling me about it.
yak2you2
2008-07-27 17:02:26
The weather is nice here today, but no fish. high boat yesterday was 4 fish for 5 hours that I heard of. Some times when we're 20 miles over on the other side of the bay, I laugh as I'm racing home at the end of the day by all the 6 knot crew. I'll have sold, eaten, and be fast asleep before they even get to the 50 yardline. But alas my little show has an achilles heel here of late, gas. I have a little trolling motor, but to get to the grounds in my alloted time, takes fish at the other end, or your going in the hole.
Weather has been so rotten,(35 s.e.-12 ft. seas for about 6 days straight) that the water looks like milk, I doubt they could find you if they were there. time to go off the beach a ways, see if the water might clear up a bit, but I'm going to skip it today. Rest up and put a whole day on it tomorrow, see if I can find anything.
The 6 line thing is in federal waters only. About mid August the Situk river goes to it's fall schedule. Gillnetting is open 2 or 3 days a week. when its closed, trolling is closed out to the federal line from the mouth of the dangerous to the west side of Yakutat bay. So, I wind up out there at times. Some years like last year it's where the fish are. They never really did come up on the beach much.
I started out trolling out of my gillnet skiff on the off days of gillnetting. I also ran some Dungy pots back then. So, trolling rack in the back, Honda and crab block strapped to the front seat, and gillnet out of the bow. It was a cluster but I did get it all done. I have it worked out how I could probably pull off power trolling out of my bayliner, I just haven't felt the need just yet. I rarely have to fish much deeper than 60 ft to 80 ft. with 25 lb. balls for cohos, so it really isn't all that bad cranking at this point in my life. probably feel differently in another 5 to 10 years but my then my little boy will be back there cranking for me.
In truth, I guess i have to admit that I am a little weary of the change of it all too. Like I said, I'm kind of at the top of my game, and what I've been doing has been pretty effective. It worries me to have to go to the back of the learning curve all over again with power trolling. I've watch some friends go through the upgrade over the years,,, and it looked pretty painful from where I was at. One guy had a tough time figuring out the intricacies of the gurdies. Horror stories of trip ending, monster backlashes. Brakes slipping and balls going straight to the bottom and snapping off, balls getting powered into the blocks and snapped off, Electrolosis issues, and, it does seem to me be a whole lot different game than what I've been playing. I'll go and hover on the tops, where the PT's will circle around the reef. Kind of seems like a whole new school of thought. One friend described it to me like this, hand trolling you tow the gear around, power trolling the gear tows you around. But thats with bags, and as you say a guy could just 2 line it.
I don't know, I keep and open mind to it, I often wonder what it must feel like to be able to wear a crown while your trolling. :lol:
Good conversation for those of us thinking about getting into the business, at least on a part time basis.
thanks,
Josh
Salty
2008-10-09 17:09:51
To all readers of this post. My son has read these posts and advises me that he prefers that I do not relate stories about his entry into the troll business. Especially when it comes to speculation about his production.
Salty
2008-10-09 17:13:57
I will try to limit my stories to ones on myself in the future. The problem is that most of those, like my mothers book, are of hard times, frustration, and various screw-ups.
Got to go salt herring in case the weather allows me to drag around for winter kings this weekend.
fishtales
2008-10-09 19:41:54
I am not trying to hi-jack this thread but I am hoping that someone can supply me with information on who or what agency can do an ad-measure for me. I am interested in a troller in BC and intend to fish Albacore in Oregon. Obviously I will not buy or commit to buy if this concern can not be addressed first.
Thanks for your help.
Fishtales
spike christopher
2008-10-10 04:07:07
Here are a few.. American Bureau of shipping 218 877 6131, Bureau Veritas 201 525 4114, Germanischer Lloyd 914 366 6606.
I used Germanischer Lloyd's they have a office in Seattle. They will travel to your town,(you pay all expenses). If you want details call me on my cell at 907 399 3555.
yak2you2
2008-10-13 08:29:00
Salty,
Sometimes the stories of hardships are the best ones. I liked your mothers book so much and hearing about how things were back in the day, that I wish you would write a part two that would continue on the family story on into your life and experiences. I bet you could come up with alot of good adventures of your own to write about, and despite your modesty I'm sure there would be plenty of success stories as well.
I've thought about writing down all my memories just to pass along to my kids a detailed history of the things I've done.
Are you seeing any kings down your way? Pretty slow over here so far, but the weather is probably the main reason for that.
Salty
2008-10-13 17:03:58
Yak2you2,
Thanks for asking. I just had a bit of correspondence with Smitty and Lorrie who used to fish the Sea Miner and the Aqavavit here in SE before they sailed the South Seas for a while. I had a picture of the Aqavavit that she got wind of and wanted it for her book she is just finishing. So, we talked a bit and they are friends with my mother and Lorrie is on the organizing committee or such for the Fisher Poets annual get together in Astoria. She really encouraged me to write something up and come to the Poets gathering and update everyone on mother. Mom used to go every year and was well received according to all the reports.
I just bought a scanner and am in the process of digitalizing all of my old slides and prints as a preamble to digitalizing the thousands of hers. I do have some good stories. Did you read the one in the Fisherman's News last winter about the first day of chum catching in Eastern Channel? Which brings me to an idea. Maybe we should start a section here on trolling stories. I have a couple. One involving my mother could be the day I decided I had to have rules for when mother went fishing with me in order to keep inviting her. I think I had about 10. Rule # 1 was that I talk first in the morning. There is another story that involves the day I fired my mother.
I am thinking there are a couple of other good stories like catching 812 coho and 40 chum one day, catching 1300 chum one day, and the saga of breaking my shaft the first season I was power trolling off of Eagle Rks. just north of Camp Ommaney. Lots of stories out there. Some sad ones too, like the time when I really needed a few bucks and I got a skunk trip. I fondly remember the couple of days that led up to me throwing all my bait, my bait hooks and leaders, and all my salt overboard in 1981. I didn't use bait again until about 2000 winter fishing. There are also a couple of practical stories about pioneering the round troll fishery for pinks and chums and using brailer bags.
What do you think. Should we start a stories section?
yak2you2
2008-10-13 17:52:53
I like the idea of a story section. I'm not computer savvy enough to put together a blog for myself, so it would give me a place to start writing things down.
yak2you2
2008-10-13 21:33:09
I would like to hear the herring story. I've certainly had my own frustrations with it over the years, and I also have thrown it over a time or two and sworn it off, only I came back to it alot sooner. It seems like salmon get so finicky about how herring is presented, it can either make me or break me. I remember one day when the threaded herring, 30 lb. test, rod crew was fishing right on the surface and absolutely knocking them out. I watched the same guy haul in a dozen fat kings, and I didn't even have one. I wasn't far from town, so i ran in, grabbed my rods, jumped in my skiff, and went out and joined the crew. For years i'd sworn that my easybaiters could keep up with the threaded guys, as has always been my experience with gurdies. but even after switching to rods, i was still getting punished. I kept reeling in to check my bait and finding about an inch of my tails missing. I was reaching the desperation point, and I was thinking that the kings were seeing my eastbaiters and were leary of them. I was about to go to threading, which I'm not the best at, and probably would have made things worse, when I realized i wasn't trailing my hooks far enough back. After correcting this i started catching immediately. I was catching nicely, as well as anyone around me, but I couldn't stand the curiosity. I went back to town, came back out with the gurdies, and threw down 60 feet of wire with my improved herring rigs, sure enough i was able to catch all up and down the wire. By the end of the day, I smoked most of the rod crew, except for one old salt, whom I will refer to here after as the rodfather.
That was years ago, but I've never forgotten the lesson, just the tiniest little adjustment with herring can make all the difference in the world.
Salty
2008-10-13 22:24:45
Size of the herring can also make a big difference.
I added a new section on the main page -
Salty
2008-10-21 06:48:17
Thanks Jon. I will try and get the nerve to submit one. When we did the Sitka Maritime Heritage Society annual meeting and storytelling last year on trolling it was really interesting how many of the troller stories were of heartbreak, futility, tragedy, and incompetence. Perhaps I will tell the story of initiating the round salmon troll fishery for pinks and chums in SE Alaska. Or perhaps the story of utter political naivety in proposing and getting a ban on the use of treble hooks through the Board of Fisheries/NPFMC process in about 1980. Or the story of throwing all my bait hooks, leaders, snubbers, and bait overboard in frustration one day in the Shark Hole and not using bait again for 18 years. Or the story of the "Rules for Mother" when she went trolling with me. The first rule being I talk first in the morning.
Anyway, so many stories so little time.