Re: Crimps - Forums Archive

Salty

2008-02-19 06:36:49

There are good reasons to hand tie. The reason to use a more expensive, unannonized, shorter, harder to crimp Jinkai sleeve escapes me. But then why trollers still use brass markers or monofilament that absorbs both sunlight and water usually escapes me too. One of my partners, who I have educated about the alternatives, still uses monofilament that is much more expensive than the alternative, subject to stretching, and actually breaks dry at less than what it is rated for. God only knows what it breaks at wet after being stretched on a couple of fish. He is perfectly happy and seems to catch just fine. He has switched sleeves though.

I have another partner who uses 60 lb. mono on his leaders to his flashers. I tried that for a couple of years and spent thousands of dollars replacing flashers. Finally gave it up even though the catch rate was excellent. He is still perfectly happy and catches lots of big Chinook.

Then I had my gear guru send my so called superior alternative to Japan for testing. He reported it was not as advertised. Who knows what the real solution is.

I hear that all our hootchies that are not ultraviolet are obsolete. Perhaps red or blue hotspots will come back into vogue. I have dozens and dozens in my garage. I did manage to sell all the purple ones at the Fisherman's gear market over the last few years. I also sold all of the spoons that one of my partners is convinced is the answer and has been scouring the west coast for them all winter.

As I prepare my taxes and contemplate another five figure gear deduction I am thinking it might be time to just stick with all the old, unused stuff I have gathered over the years. Of course you could get to five figures pretty fast just on leads.

Perhaps one of the threads on this site could be a gear exchange or sales spot.

Jon

2008-02-19 16:56:35

Good idea. I've added a For Sale/Wanted forum to the website. I moved your post here so it wouldn't get moved into the For Sale area with the other crimps thread. :)

-Jon

XtraTuf

2008-03-22 17:11:24

Hi Salty,

I 'm fairly new to trolling and have some questions about what you wrote. When you referred to "unannonized" Jinkai sleeves, did you mean "annodized"? I'm probably way out of the loop, but I'm still using Jinkai sleeves. Is there something new or better that you recommend switching to? I'm still using monofilament also. What is the less expensive alternative that you are referring to? I just bought a roll of expensive 80# flourocarbon leader, but it seems a lot stiffer than my regular mono, and appears to be more visible. And now I'm worried about my flashers. I'm still using purple Hotspots. Am I way off base on that? Is there something better than Hotspots, or is purple the wrong color? I would sure appreciate some input from you or other trollers who are knowledgeable about this, and who might be able to answer the above questions.

Thanks, XtraTufs

yak2you2

2008-03-23 05:19:24

what kind of flashers are you in to now salty? Broken glass? i still have a lot of good days with blue/glow in the dark flashers. Fact is, I'm not convinced that it matters. the idea is that the flash brings them in close, then the lure does the rest right? anyway, I like running an assortment of colors, so if you are interested in horse trading or selling some of your "obsolete" stuff, we should talk, I love horse trading. I turned into a collector a number of years ago, got all kinds of cool old and new stuff, and some things that i've invented along the way.

I guess my go to thought is, how many fish have been killed in days gone by with dark green Oregon tuna leader, rinky dink blued hooks, and hand stamped out copper spoons, that were run by guys with boats that had no gps, auto pilot, fathometer, or even a gaff hook as we know them.

Where does it end? now there's e-chips, black boxes, time release scent dispensing planers, ect. ect. All winter I ran a UV hoochie right beside the same color hoochie that wasn't UV I didn't see where one outfished the other.

Everybody has their personal favorite though. so think back to that 1 and only hook you got off some old timer at the local watering hole. The one you caught more fish with than anything ever before or ever since. Then finally one day a halibut took it away from you, and the shop where they were made just burned down a year before, and you've never been able to find another one.

this would be the perfect place to snoop through each other's tackle boxes and come up with some horse trades.

My pesonal gear quest is for a spoon called a Mcknight. in a gold/chrome 50/50. I love fishing them behind flashers, the factory did actually burn down, and yes, a halibut did steal one from me. I have one left though. Every day I stare at it hanging in it's shrine, and wonder if today should be the day that I should throw all caution to the wind, and risk my last one. to do so when there is no replacement is to invite near certain disaster. like bringing a banana aboard, or leaving port on a friday. i just know the second it goes over the side, a halibut will eat it, or some similar fate.

Anyone with some of these in their garage they no longer want, contact me immediately, and if anyone has any off the wall requests try me, I might have some.

Salty

2008-03-23 06:01:48

Yak2u2,

We are still testing the broken glass and purple haze flashers. No verdict in on these yet. They do not seem to be producing on the back deck while the boat is tied to the dock.

I tested the e-chip (chimp) flasher a few years ago. I think I still have some around. They were not of the quality I like either in production of fish or durability of manufacture.

My verdict on the flourocarbon line is that it is too stiff in the leader strength we want.

McKnight spoons? What size?

I am thinking I could make it if I had contracts with the gear companies to be paid to test their gear instead of spending all my own money to test their gear for them.

yak2you2

2008-03-23 13:51:30

No. 5 Mcknight. If i could just find find the frames, i could send them in have them painted up the way i wanted. In reality, I don't suppose they fish any better than some of the other similar spoons, it's just the idea that I can't find any that agitates me I think. Pallister made them, and as far as I know, their out of buissness.

I'm with you on the e-chip stuff. It's made by pro-troll and the quality just isn't there, and they don't last. I do like the action on the tailfin flashers though.

So are you thinking of getting rid of your red and blue flashers? The one thing I could actually use, is a bunch of #9 black rubber snubbers. I run them on all my king gear. spoons too. and they go away on me from time to time. My thinking is it helps keep some of the bigger ones from ripping out, If anyone has a pile of these they want to get rid of, I'd be open to it.

for me, if price were'nt an issue, i'd have to say that yama-line s the best quality mono I've ever used. But it is expensive. Penn makes a 1600 yrd spool for a reasonable price that is close enough for me to live with. The best quality line for the price that i've tried is called suffix. it's cheap, and tough, it's just a little stiffer than what i like.

Some gal at Murray's told me that the sitka boys were seeing a 1/3 better catch rates on broken glass flashers, but I've yet to try any.

yak2you2

2008-08-09 06:30:24

Salty, you never did say what your alternative leader material you were talking about at the top of this post was. I'm curious.

Jon

2008-08-09 15:12:35

me too!

Salty

2008-08-12 19:05:00

You ask too much. But I will reveal the source and you can figure it out from there. I just spent $97.00 for a 2,140 yard spool at Charkbait. Shipping was extra but I bought some for my partners so it worked out fine. I use 80 and 100 lb.

A health hint. Don't burn the end of the leader after putting it through the sleeve, just flatten the end with your crimps. Works great without toxic fumes.

But the real secret is the chaffing tubing. Learned that from the trollers in Oregon. Ask me about that sometime.

The way we have been catching chums the last ten days I could just about sell any of my chum gear at a premium. But then my partners would kill me. Finicky, finicky fish. Makes catching kings and coho look like a cake walk. Guys on the same drag who all know how to catch chums had scores ranging from 9-600 one of the days this week. One of my friends who used to be right there with us fished all day beside me for 32. He quit in disgust.

Really cool to see a piece of gear and have an idea it might work, try it out, and it works like magic. The volumes in chum fishing mean that when you have the right stuff you can really see the difference.

Also makes for a lot of frustration even within the group where we all share information and gear. Most of the fleet has quit in disgust. I am taking a day off as it is blowing and raining and we don't like running all that gear in wind, rain, and waves. My seiner friends got 3-10,000 lbs a haul while we were struggling to get a bite. Crazy, crazy stuff.

So, two gear hints, a health hint, and a fish story all in one post. And from a guy who has learned so much about trolling that he is totally confused and can't catch a coho on a spoon to save his life. Any hints on how to do that?

I am actually looking forward to some posts about sharing computer technology struggles or ignorance sometime this fall. Perhaps that should be a whole separate thread.

Perhaps we should expand the troll ethics to inclulde a discussion about whether to avoid people who are using new technology to drag where trollers have never fished before. Just spent a couple of days fishing a pinnacle patch watching other trollers smoking all across the drag endangering those of us with new intel. Watching people hang up and getting stuck in the middle of the drag. Leaving float bags and wire strung across the drag. Trying to avoid people coming the wrong way up the drag fishing too shallow to get a bite but inadvertently forcing us onto humps we are carefully steering around. Being forced to turn in front of someone who is inadvertently pushing me on a hump that he doesn't know is there or even imagines that I am fishing so deep in that spot that I can't get over that hump.

On the other hand it is kind of entertaining to see a troller on the dog drag going about seven knots for about five minutes with 5-10 flashers hanging in the air.

I shouldn't talk too much though, since I lost 3 leads and one whole wire myself this week. But, I was off by myself where I am confident no troller had ever drug that much wire that close to those pinnacles ever before. And I did get some dogs to bite. And I do remember my first, and only time smoking around Hoktaheen during a king opening.

Anyway, I am really enjoying the day off and looking forward to a fun king opening.

Salty

2008-08-12 19:28:28

People still use snubbers? I do use a snubber during kings on my lead spoon because it is only 6 feet long but it is one of those green ones. Catch rate really picked up about 25 years ago when I stopped using black snubbers. Where I really noticed the difference was on a circle drag like the Shark Hole or Pt. Amelia where you could observe every fish caught between the 10 to 15 guys in the circle. Really became obvious who was catching and what gear they were using.

If you need snubbers then you probably need better leader material.

We use the Canadian, or Jensen troll snaps. But we are in a minority and my one partner who tried to convert this year got so frustrated with them that I have to buy his. I like the shorter squeeze and the fact that you can run them through the fair lead without kinking the wire or stopping the gurdy. It does make it kind of interesting when you run about three leaders around the gurdy snapping leaders and fish off because none of my spoons or flashers will go through the fair leades. Also makes for quite a mess trying to unwind the snaps, line, and wire off the gurdy.

We have been experimenting with the cracked glass for about three years. We have ordered cracked glass tape and put it on some of our flashers. One of my partners who is doing quite well is sold on it. I am convinced it is not hurting and probably better than the standard hot spot finish, or straight chrome finish. But, we are using something completely different that I have yet to see on the shelves yet. It is better for chums and fall coho for sure but does not seem to work so well for kings or early coho.

I am going to buy some of the broken glass for the upcoming king opening as the broken glass finish tape seems to peel off too fast.

yak2you2

2008-08-13 03:28:08

Snubbers, are a simple necessity for me. In any kind of off shore chop my little boat turns into a cork. All the snapping around yanks them right off the hook on me, without snubbers. In fact, usually when it start to pick up, it will be the frustration of losing fish after fish do to the shock that will send me home before the uncomfortableness of the ride does. As far as wrapping the wire goes, I can drag my fingers in the water as i'm setting out, so I don't have those kinds of issues that guys who fish higher out of the water have. As far as catch rate goes, I've fish around all snap guys before, many times. Let me put it this way, I'm not usually anywhere on the bottom half of the list. I run extra long leaders, I don't know if that makes the difference, but they never seem to be to intimidated by snubbers for me. As i've said, each fisherman's scenario is different depending on his/her conditions. I do drop them over from time to time though, and as they are expensive, I'm always on the lookout for spares.

My only issue with my mono leader is that it turns white on me after a while, an I have to replace it often. The stretchiness hasn't been an issue. Halibut are about the only thing that will bust me off. The only other thing that is an issue for me at times, is when I'm hauling in a big fish with new mono in hand it will on an occasion slip through my hands on me, and give the fish room to get turned around on me- that can be an issue with the wrong fish. I've kind of eliminated that for the most part by experimenting with different gloves.

I used the cracked glass with everything incased inside all summer now, I like them. Maybe they fish a little better and maybe not, but i'm certain they are going to last longer.

Salty

2008-08-14 16:25:39

Longer leaders sure helps sometimes. I hear you about the jerkiness on trolling in chop in a small boat. There are quite a few good ideas for springs or springy blocks. But I went to just straight blocks on the rack a few years ago and don't have any problems.

So you use snubbers for coho too?

That is one of the problems I used to have with mono is that my tail leaders and leaders were basically shot after one time use because the absorbed the salt water.

The stuff I am using now is much better in that regard. It still kinks up after a while on the hootchies or bugs.

Really having problems getting the chums to bite well this year. Most of the fleet has quit. Will give it a try again this afternoon but am not wildly optimistic.

yak2you2

2008-08-15 00:34:12

Wow, I didn't realize that. You guys are open in the hatchery fisheries even during the general closure eh? cool! Do you get to sell Cohos if you run into them? I sure hope something shows when we get back out, if we get back out. The weather is absolutely rotten right now.

Snubbers for coho too. I have to. Even cohos will rip out on me in the chop if I don't. Not often, but enough where at 20 bucks a fish it's worth the hassle of snubbin it. This high turn over fishery is where I loose alot of my snubbers. It takes a lot of tweaking of traditional fishing styles to make it work with all the outboards and junk I've got hanging off of the back of my boat.

One friend constantly makes fun of me for this, but, speaking of crimps, I've never used them. I learned how to tie, and have just always been to stubborn to ever change. I'm about to start this fall I think though. I'll have to pick your brain when we get there.