quick troller/crabber combo
kingsalmon
2013-10-30 05:14:31
Looking for a smaller 30-35' range boat to serve as a combo vessel troller crabber. I will be working the boat part time, trolling salmon and albacore(occasionally) and crabbing in the winter. Since the boat will be often fishing day trips, I am looking for something fairly quick. Anyone have any advice here as far as boats to look for. I have seen an american commercial that look like it would fit my needs, waiting to here back from broker. People have recomended radons, becasue they are a planning hull, can scoot through the water, they look a little narrow and flat to me to handle much weather, but not sure. Any advice about boats to look for here, or anything related to making a smaller day trip troller/crabber venture work out is appreciated.
Hans2
2013-10-30 17:03:11
Interested in hearing what you get from the pro's on this one. Where are you located, and how far out do you need to go for Albies? I was on a sport trip a few weeks ago for tuna out of Westport, WA and have a hard time believing a planing boat of any size could be made to pay when fishing tuna unless they are right outside the harbor (we went 30 miles out of the harbor, which is pretty darn close, relatively speaking). Just my initial impression, tho.
kingsalmon
2013-10-31 01:32:43
Yeah I think your right, big freezer boat is the only way to go to make big money tuna fishing, I'd just like to get out to the blue water and cover expenses and put a few bucks in my pocket... Salmon and crab would pay much better. Again, not my main sorce of income so not trying to get rich but don't want to spend a ton to lose... Basically I guess I am asking for best of both worlds recomendation... A planning hull that can pack a bit and hold a decent amount crab pots on deck, while being set up to troll:) what boat is that??
SilverT
2013-10-31 02:34:39
Kingsalmon,
We fished in Alaska and Washington out of a small, 25 foot planning boat, specifically Sitka, and Westport and have a few observations:
The small boat seems great for:
• Speed – getting to the grounds quickly & getting home out of trouble quickly
• Haul-outs cost nothing with a trailer
• Moorage costs nothing through the winter with a trailer or less at the marina because it’s shorter
• Maintaining at home – it’s nice to be able to walk outside and work on it without travel time.
• Easy to maneuver
The smaller boats seem to suffer as follows:
• Loading – Much of the same safety equipment is required to fish off-shore and they are easily overloaded, particularly with fish / pots on board.
• Fuel – typically burn nearly the same amount of fuel as a bigger boat unless it’s really small. Consequently, you find yourself fueling two to ten times as often due to the small tanks. This means waiting for the 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., except when closed on Sundays, fuel dock to open or cutting your day short to run in and fuel up before they close so you can fish the next day. This is a pain in the neck and robs fishing time.
• Ice – Small boats get filled quickly, therefore, they need fresh ice two to 3 times as often as larger boats. This is a pain in the neck and robs fishing time.
• Hold space – Small boats can get filled quickly, requiring frequent, sometimes daily unloading. This is a pain in the neck and robs fishing time.
• Living quarters – Small boats are often shy on living amenities. Heaters, bathrooms and showers are sometimes missing and can make or break the general experience.
The suffering category will cost a lot of time and money. If you’re going to fish it in the winter you’re going to lose the moorage savings. Regarding speed, there is usually only one direction you can travel quickly on the open ocean and that’s back to port unless you don’t care much for the rigging and equipment. Otherwise, waves and low light conditions will have you running between 7 and 15 knots to get out to the grounds. That’s not much faster than the big boats. I have almost always been disappointed at how little gear I have in the water when the guy I pass half way out pulled up beside me. Also, fishing winter in a small boat sounds like a pounding, although we didn't fish in the winter.
If you’re still bent on the fast boat, consider something around 30’ or longer with a large hold and large fuel tanks to minimize some of the above and to give you some deck space for pots. If I could build one, it would be aluminum, diesel, have a lot of deck space and still be trailerable with a wide load sticker. It would hold five days of fuel and have twice the hold space. 17 knots would be plenty fast.
Hans2,
Not a pro, but regarding albacore out of the small boat, hold space is the largest drawback. 220 8 pound salmon fit in the hold and coolers with slush ice. It’s quite a bit of hold space for a boat that size. Only 65 albacore fit in the same space. If you’re into them, the boat can be completely plugged around noon the first day and it’s time to turn around and head in after running all night to get 50 miles out. 910 pounds of fresh albacore at $1.30 per lb = $1,183.
Sounds good until you figure you had to leave the dock at 12 a.m. Thursday to get there by first light Friday morning. You return after delivery time (they close at noon in Westport) so you have to wait until they open at 6 on Saturday to deliver. An entire morning of hot albacore fishing wasted screwing around with fuel, ice and delivery because the boat wasn’t big enough or we missed the gas dock closing time. Westport is typically 40-50 miles out and you’re right, it’s not really profitable with a small boat, but it certainly is fun.
Best wishes on your research,
Lane
Kelper
2013-10-31 02:48:59
Nice post Silver T.
Sounds like you want an east coast style boat, like a lobster boat or the smaller ones on the show Wicked Tuna.
kingsalmon
2013-11-01 15:11:29
right on thanks for that drew, ill have a look online at a few east coast boats. Anyone else have any suggestions?
Kelper
2013-11-01 16:00:45
For day tripping, I'd be looking at a 28' Aluminum with twin 150hp outboards. Rig up a powerpack for hydros. Keep it on the trailer. Get a good sized kicker for most of your trolling to keep hours off the mains.
kingsalmon
2013-11-02 00:51:23
I currently have a big 25 footer, 9'6" beam which is beamy for a 25, the boat takes a 32' slip so it is a big 25, with twin outboards. Although I love the boat for sport fishing, run way way offshore chasing albacore up to 80 miles, main issues are lack of a decent sized fish hold and fuel economy is not ideal. When I open the motors up wide open, I burn close to 30GPH! average is closer to 1.5 MPG on long off shore days, and pretty decent trolling for salmon... But with that said, I really think I could find a 32' diesel with a big hold that burns the same fuel and can much easier be rigged for hydraulics. I would be sacrificing trailerablilty, but gaining ability to fish rougher weather and pack some weight.
Again I am a novice, with not much experience, and would love to hear more about what yall think, thanks for all the replys so far.
lone eagle
2013-11-03 02:55:35
I look around the harbor and see many 35' boats that do well in the crab and salmon fisheries. And they are trip boats too that pack good numbers of fish, and can and do go out for albacore. They are not expensive to buy (except the crab permit). you may be surprised that paying monthly moorage instead of annual saves very little and the annual haul out ($700 for me) is the cost of a dozen fish.
They don't pack a lot of pots and guys contract with larger boats to drop pots at the start of the season. I would urge you to check out the ports and talk to guys running these boats.
kingsalmon
2013-11-03 03:42:33
Right on thanks for that, I've heard this story from many, and do see many 35' boats out there, basically just looking for ideas on specific boat manufactures that would fit my needs, a boat that packs a decent amount and moves quickly through the ocean.
Thanks
Salty
2013-11-03 16:22:18
When you find one that a troller/crabber can afford and is affordable to run (fuel efficient) let me know.
kingsalmon
2013-11-03 18:15:54
Finding an affordable and economical troller/crabber around here is doable (not including crab permit), but finding one that has a big enough hold, is what Im curious about finding.
kjwelder
2013-11-04 01:11:16
How many tons of salmon and how many crab pots do you want to pack?
I know of some 32' bristol bay boats that can plane heading out but go slow when loaded.
Rawson has a fiberglass 32.
Also, Barry Ferrell from canada makes 32 and 35 footers.
I think Snoball is an american builder with a similar mold.
SilverT
2013-11-04 01:23:39
Kingsalmon,
Take a look at the "Haley's Comet" on Seattle Craigslist.
Lane
Kelper
2013-11-04 04:28:10
Salty
2013-11-04 05:07:11
I checked it out. Seems a bit short
kingsalmon
2013-11-04 05:16:49
Good looking boat, but yes a little short for me. That is basically, besides the diesel, the boat a have now. I am looking for something about 5-7ft longer, more hold space and weather handling ability.
Thanks for that, keep ideas coming.
kjwelder
2013-11-05 04:49:19
Maybe lengthen yours.
kjwelder
2013-11-05 04:50:23
Maybe lengthen yours.
kingsalmon
2013-11-05 15:14:43
Lengthening would solve the boat size/packing issue but a bigger boat in my opinion needs a diesel power plant, the gas outboards are just to thirsty. 30+ knots is nice but how often can you really do that in the open ocean, and the 30GPH fuel suck that comes with it isn't nice on the pocketbook..
kjwelder
2013-11-06 05:44:43
I never got an answer for how many tons of fish and # and weight of pots
lone eagle
2013-11-07 02:21:23
kingsalmon
2013-11-07 04:22:40
kjwelder- Sorry missed that post somehow. If I could hold 2.5+ tons fish and 50-60 38" dungy pots I think Id be happy, and be able to get on on plane. When hauling crab gear wouldn't be as important to haul balls. Thanks for there other boat maker options, I will have a look at them. I have looked at the bristol bay boats and I think they would fit the bill for what I want to do.
SilverT
2013-11-07 04:37:32
SilverT
2013-11-07 20:29:11
Captain Obvious here...just reread your first post. Evidently you've checked that one out already.
Lane
SilverT
2013-11-08 21:11:39
kingsalmon
2013-11-19 01:47:43
Looked at everything online im sure and a few local boats, and haven't found her yet. I am in california so I see a few of those Radons for sale, they are good boats, but definitely a bit shallow. I like how they are designed to plane, I really want to hold off until I find a boat that can plane. Most of the faster boats I see are that are diesels, are Inboard Outboard. I am not a hug fan of outdrives on saltwater boats that live in the water. I may have to find a project boat and put a new diesel in it. I have seen a few American Commercial hulls that I like the looks of, with a bigger power plant put in they could likely get up and move. Anyone know anyting about these hulls?
kjwelder
2013-11-19 04:39:39
I've always thought the european cod jigging boats looked nice. Theres a nice one in Sitka.(not for sale) that ive been on. They plane, have standard diesel inboard, can pack 4 or 5 ton, have lots of deck space, trailerable, 32 by 8 aproximate.
Sparce on comforts but have heat and bunks. I cant remember the make though..... Grasky or something icelandic.
kjwelder
2013-11-19 04:44:44
kingsalmon
2013-11-19 16:14:42
Those look good to me, let me know if you see you for sale.
Here is a link to the american commercial I saw online for sale, only real issue is it is about 4 feet shorter than Id like and is an Inboard/outboard. http://dockstreetbrokers.com/listing_detail.php?id=974
Quite a few boats like that for sale but they all seem to be expensive, go figure, I guess the inboard/outboard allows them to go a bit faster with the same power because the outdrive can be trimed out where a straight inboard can not.
F/VNightingale
2013-11-19 19:45:15
I've been thinking about the quick, small boat combo for a while also. The boat you described earlier in the thread is called a Gask'i, kjwelder. There was one for sale on Permitmasters.com, but it looks like it got scooped up. Anyway, Gask'i seems to be the early predecessors to what I'm starting to see developed in the Scandinavian countries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q3fE6sfDaI
It goes without saying, these boats made in Europe are probably WAY too expensive for us Pacific side fishermen to ever get our hands on. But, they do give us some great ideas about what a fisherman could strive for on a small boat platform made in America.
lone eagle
2013-11-20 02:07:40
[attachment=0]1560_addmain3.jpg[/attachment] 36' Gaski. These were for sale in the Aleutians some time ago .Native corporation was asking about $80k apiece
lone eagle
2013-11-20 02:10:05
There are two or three 36' Roberts running pots out of Port Orford and I know there are a bunch of them in SE
kingsalmon
2013-11-20 05:20:06
Yeah I like Roberts boats, I know of a ~32' footer set up for trolling and pot fishing, for sale, with twins, it will hit the speed I want, it just is such a clean dialed boat it is out of my current price range. I do like the look of the boat. Those Gaskis look decent also, not sure about speed specs. I will keep an eye out for them I think one is still for sale.
Hans2
2013-11-20 15:08:04
So, I got pretty interested in learning more about the Gaski and did a little looking around-
http://gaskiboats.com/gaskiboats.php
"Features of the Gaski vessels
The "G'aski" vessels are planing hull and have a deep keel the full length of the vessel.
Cruising speed varies dependent upon engine size, prop, gear ratio and weight on board. Our experience has been that the standard g'aski - 30' to 36' - outfitted with an inboard diesel engine placed in the stern with our standard v drive gear cruises in the range of 14 to 18 knots with a 2-ton load on board. Top speeds have ranged from 17 knots to a high of 38. One feature of importance to the fishermen has been that her cruising speed typically isn't affected by her load."
"Fuel Consumption
Fuel consumption depends on many variables: speed traveled, size of engine, weight of gear, condition of seas, prop, etc. It is best to consult your engine dealer for results experienced by the engine of your choice. Broadly generalized and subject to the variables, our studies have shown that the standard g'aski fuel consumption while traveling at 20 knots is estimated at 1.6 miles per gallon while fuel consumption of the most popular traditional vessel traveling at 8 knots is 2 gallons per hour. The g'aski consumes 20% more fuel per mile than the traditional vessel when the vessels are traveling at their respective cruising speeds; however, the g'aski will be travelling twice as fast. "
They are a little loose with their numbers on fuel, but since they don't spec the engine they certainly can't lay down hard numbers. Looks like they quote loading of up to 3 metric tons for the 36' boat. That may be just the max number that allows the boat to plane, not sure.
Also ran across this in the National Fisherman about Rozema Boat Works in Mount Vernon, Washington-
"In other boatbuilding work, the crew at Rozema Boat Works is about midway done building what Rozema calls the "ultimate multipurpose boat." It's a 55' x 17' aluminum boat that will be used for longlining, gillnetting and charter fishing. Instead of a displacement hull, the 55-footer has a planing hull and a pair of 660-hp Caterpillar C12 diesels."
Obviously overkill for what you're talking about, but it looks like they have the concept of what you are looking to do down.
Hans
kjwelder
2013-11-21 07:20:12
Gaski. .. thanks. I remember now. Cool boats
kjwelder
2013-11-21 07:30:03
kingsalmon
2013-11-22 05:20:28
That one in bellingham looks like a good hull, maybe use 4 more feet loa, only problem is the duoprop outdrive. I dont have much experience with I/Os but hear many bad stories about boats kept in the water and the sterndrives not lasting. Maybe this is just a maitenance cost you factor in for the good economy and faster speed than a shaft drive?
That canadian boat looks really interesting, everything looks good. I contact the broker for location and find out about hold size, well see what they say.
thanks y'all
kingsalmon
2013-11-22 06:07:58
actually a few boats on pacific boat brokers site catch my eye, I guess I havent looked in a while.
heres the question, most of them are in canada, what is involved getting a canadian vessel regestered to an american owner and fishing in the states? Whats it take?
F/VNightingale
2013-11-22 22:42:37
In a nutshell, to buy a Canadian fishing boat and use it in American waters:
Pay a few thousand dollars to have it admeasure surveyed. It must come in under 5 net tons to fish in American waters.
Declare it to customs upon crossing the border, and then state register it.
Fish it.
kingsalmon
2013-11-23 00:27:53
whats it take to come in at under 5 tons admeasured? Less than 5 fish hold capacity? Who do I talk to in order to do this? Can the broker handle it, they likely come across this all the time?
Once and Future
2013-11-23 00:34:01
In the world of admeasure "ton" is a volume measurement. In my case, a beamy 42' troller made it easily. The broker will know where to direct you, but I don't think they will do it themselves. That Bob Best had a nice low-stress career found for himself. I suspect someone would take over.
kingsalmon
2013-11-23 01:09:27
assuming Bob Best is a surveyor? Anyway I am looking much smaller than that boat you mentioned so should work out.... Good news lots of boats that fit my needs on pacific boat brokers... bad news most in canada and although that doesnt sound like a deal break with the info discussed above, pain in my ass to get up there and will have to get her put on a low boy and pay to get it hauled down to California I guess.
kingsalmon
2013-11-23 03:55:49
Kelper
2013-11-23 18:24:19
Big engine, lots of fuel. Curious how it does with 600gal of fuel in the stern like it says it has. Loots like a good pot boat, but not so sure how you'd like it as a troller. You'd have to put a bunch of money into it to get it trolling. Not so sure how that 380hp engine would troll either.
kingsalmon
2013-11-23 18:48:00
Yeah had those concerns also, waiting to get details, wondering if it really has 600 gal fuel or if that is 2 tanks total 300 2x150? Been noticing a couple other american commercials in the 30' range with i/o volvos, not wild about the I/O but the speed is good and boats are set up as combo troll and pot boats already so that will save some money. here is a link to a smaller boat. they seem to have decent sized fish holds, decent top speed and efficiency, Im hoping to get away and check one or two of them out soon.
http://dockstreetbrokers.com/listing_detail.php?id=974
akfish
2013-11-23 22:55:20
The admeasurement process is no longer as easy! You can not use private measurers such as Bob Best or Rick Martin. I used Rick and it was a simple process but I was told by the CG I lucked out because the rules changed just after mine was done.
F/VNightingale
2013-11-24 22:34:06
It's no longer easy because the survey process was abused so blatantly.
kingsalmon
2013-11-25 03:08:16
Where can I find the details on this, on what exactly is entailed here?
akfish
2013-11-25 03:13:25
Call the American Bureau of Shipping in Houston. Private company who contracts for the Feds. Basicly any boat under 50ft will pass. The only area measured is the hold and even if you dont pass you can deep frame it to pass. Nightengale is right there were to many boats scamming their way through. I read about some squid boats 80ft long that passed in California. Bringing the boat through customs from Canada was easy!
SilverT
2013-12-01 01:57:14
Kingsalmon,
I thought you might appreciate this:
http://juneau.craigslist.org/boa/4220402705.html
A fair bit of money, but size, capacity, fuel efficiency & speed all seem to be there. At least it gives the idea that it's possible. Wish there were more pics. Happy hunting.
Lane
kingsalmon
2013-12-01 03:33:09
Cool thanks for that, I sent an email hopefully I hear back, could tell what it was set up for fishing, for that kind of scratch I'd hope it was setup for pot fishing and trolling.