Oregon king fishing - Forums Archive

Siskiyous

2013-09-21 04:00:44

Kings in OR have been very good this year. There are areas and periods of quotas. But until Sept 1 the central coast was unlimited. Currently it is 100 per week until the season ends at the end of OCT. Weather has us in port right now.

akfish

2013-09-21 06:13:24

Thats good to hear that. I heard some guys on the dock this summer here in AK talking about a possible quota system being implemented here. Sounds good but I know there are argument from both sides.

Salty

2013-09-21 16:44:29

akfish,

Guys are talking about a quota system for what? Chinook, or all SE troll salmon? Summer, spring, winter, or all? What kind of quota? IFQ type quota based on catch history, or even split of all the king quota for the over 1,000 power and hand trollers? Trip quota's for what time period? How do you figure freezer trollers in?

Any type of quota for SE trollers is extremely complex because of a multitude of factors like both Federal and State jurisdiction, US salmon treaty, the great diversity of the troll fleet in investment, area, time fishing, etc. In all the years I have been involved in SE troll politics I have never heard a serious discussion by troll leaders about implementing an individual "quota system" for our SE troll fishery.

I have heard a lot of talk, particularly among us lowliners, about how nice it would be to have some kind of ratio system or other method of spreading the summer Chinook season over more time. Personally, even though I don't catch that many summer Chinook, I can't see any quota program that the majority of the fleet would support that wouldn't seriously gouge those most dependent on the Chinook fishery.

Anyway, I would be very interested in what "some" trollers are thinking. A great way to discover what elected troll leaders are thinking is to attend an ATA, SPC, F&GAC or regional aquaculture association meeting.

My thinking above does not mean I do not support ideas for spreading the summer Chinook season over more time. I just don't think a ratio, trip limit, or some kind of personal quota system is the way to go.

akfish

2013-09-21 18:41:43

Salty, I obviously couldnt mention boat names here but I will tell you their idea that they claim they were trying to implement Take the quota and split it between power and hand trollers. For example since their permits are roughy a third of our so give them a third of the quota. Freezer boats would not be treated differently. Reasoning ws it would keep guys in the King fishery who didnt want to take a beating when there is rough water or maybe a breakdown during the opener. Second thing it would do is spread it out over the summer maybe having a lower rate of wounded Kings being released while targeting Coho. Last thing was that the quota could be sold by people so if permit holder wants to sell someone half of the quota he has then he would have the right to do so.

Salty

2013-09-21 19:47:30

Thanks for the info.

Kelper

2013-09-21 20:03:22

Not sure if I'm reading things right... but a third of the king quota is a lot of kings for the HT fleet. I'll have to dig a little in the management plan, but they don't even come close that that right now.

If we did an even split, then the numbers would have looked something like this:

We caught 84,653 kings in the July opener. 757 permits fished. Sorry, not sure of the HT and PT breakdown. 12.1lb average. $4.60 average.

So, if we did an even split, every troller would get around 111 kings, or a value of $6178. Not to mention more permits that are sitting idle would be tossed into the mix. Not sure how many PT permits are out there either, but I think it's a bunch.

Not sure the fleet wants that..

akfish

2013-09-21 20:24:28

I agree Kelper just relaying what I heard some guys talking about on the dock. I dont think they were actually involved in politics of Trolling though one said he was going to talk to the BOF about it. I think most guys would not go for this since most guys who fished every day in the opener did well over that number some did that the first day. Interesting if nothing else. Would be interesting to hear some WA, OR, CA trollers comment here about it if thats how they do it in their area. I for one would not be happy at just 111 Kings.

Kelper

2013-09-21 20:35:44

I understand the frustration out there though. Some years if the kings show up a few weeks late to an area, the guys who normally fish those spots starve. Not much wiggle room for weather/breakdowns/ or just plain starting in the wrong spot with these short summer openings. Sure would be nice to get to those 20 day openings though. Not sure if it's even possible with all the good fishermen out there. It'd have to be one heck of a big quota. I honestly think our best bet to give all trollers a shot at catching valuable kings is to keep expanding the May/June hatchery openings, and perhaps moving some more treaty kings in that direction. Perhaps keep the winter fishery open for the first week in May? That could be a lucrative week for trollers.

lone eagle

2013-09-22 03:24:51

we have a 100 fish per week landing limit in sept/oct to restrict impact on Columbia Tules. We regard this as a good thing, as opportunity to fish rather than a shutdown. And 400 fish a month in the fall is a possible $24k check

akfish

2013-09-22 03:50:10

Lone Eagle, 100 per week for how long? When is your season? Thanks for the input!

lone eagle

2013-09-22 15:06:08

Oregons' season south of Cape Falcon runs wide open April thru August; September and October have a weekly landing limit of 100 Kings. No coho retention this year.

akfish

2013-09-22 18:47:59

Lone Eagle goid input try and respond on the new Quota topic. Would be interesting to know how many trollers you have and what overall catches are like. When weather is good are there boats that actually do a 100 a week for months at a time?

lone eagle

2013-09-23 03:05:44

3 weeks into this month and even a rookie like me is close to 300 fish.. working 3 days a week. It's actually not so much about the quantity of fish but the grade that makes gravy. Going forward the weather not looking so good and there's no knowing if the fish will move on....so I guess we're taking it one week at a time, but so far so good.

Akfish...I know that some boats struggle and others excel consistently. statistical averages don't really tell the story and what keeps me in the game is knowing that it can be done

Salty

2013-09-23 20:38:08

"I honestly think our best bet to give all trollers a shot at catching valuable kings is to keep expanding the May/June hatchery openings, and perhaps moving some more treaty kings in that direction. Perhaps keep the winter fishery open for the first week in May? That could be a lucrative week for trollers."

I agree, been fighting to optimize the winter Chinook harvest and the May and June fisheries forever. Significant advances have been made. It is no accident that the winter quota is 45,000 instead of 24,000, that the hatchery Chinook we catch in the winter are now added to the winter quota, that we get to fish until we get the winter quota plus hatchery add on, or May 1 instead of closing April 14th. Lots of involvement by lots of trollers have led to these changes.

Personally, I think a troll fishery inside the surf line for the mother's day market makes a lot of sense. Proposals to the BOF are due next April.

Salty

2013-09-23 20:39:11

ATA will be doing it's first consideration of proposals to offer the Board of Fish at their meeting the first week of October. Send them a letter with your idea(s).

Siskiyous

2013-09-30 18:00:28

I think that we are mixing two quota ideas - I responded talking about what is more accurately a landing limit. I am fishing the same waters as Lone Eagle, my first season, and having about the same results when equipment snafus and the flu don't interfere.

Here in Oregon there is a mix of schemes based on the area and the time of year. The OR border to Humbug MT, has monthly total catch quotas, and in Sept combines it with a time window. In the central area there is no overall quota, but after a few days closure in Sept there is a 100 fish per week per vessel limit until the season ends at the end of Oct.

There are many boats consistently getting their 100 fish. Prices vary by buyer. i have gotten as much as $6.00/lb for x-larges, but Pacific Choice (With its many variations on that name) pays $5.75 for 11 pounds and over and $5.00/lb for under 11 lb in Charleston. Grade has been down recently, but I have found a better than average grade most of the year. Don't know why except I do pray to God for his blessings.

There are rumors of a quota system like the IFQ system, if that happens my purchase of this boat with its great catch history will have a very good outcome for me. But, I suspect that it is more of a wish than a serious possibility.

yak2you2

2013-10-01 04:34:10

I whole heartedly sympathize with the misery of derby fishin' in July, but I think an attempt to sort out individual quota would be to complex. I think it would lead to no end of infighting amongst our ranks that we can ill afford right now.

I think Mr. Jordan has it spot on with his focus on increasing May and June hatchery releases. we also need to take a good look at getting better real time quota attachment based on whats out there. We totally missed a big boat this year. Not blaming anybody, don't have any answers right now personally, just can plainly see that we need to work on it.

If anything, I'd approach it this way. Instead of a full blown IFQ program, what if.....you just gave every single active permit say,,,an IFQ of 15 kings per year, or what ever number we felt we could part with, and cut that total off of the top number. We'll still have our marathon, but at least everybody gets a little taste, and/or special market if they wish.

These are just my own personal thoughts,

Casey Mapes- ATA handtroll rep.

akfish

2013-10-01 14:43:16

Casey, thats the first time I have heard that and it sounds good and esier than a Quota system for sure.

Kelper

2013-10-01 14:45:18

Honestly, I think the full on derby style opening in early July is the most fair way to go about things. I do think it could be worth looking at management measures to keep the season open longer on low abundance years.. Like closing trolling past the 3 mile line for kings, or (gasp) opening it up inside the surf lines. Then we could hit a 15-20 day king opener with a smaller amount of kings to catch. The guys with the big boats wouldn't go for that at all though.

Siskiyous

2013-10-01 17:10:53

A baseline IFQ, that is an interesting concept, then a derby and all the other measures on top of it.

I can see the ashen faces of the computer obsessed federal managers now. How will we make sure they don't catch .567 percent too many fish returning to xyz creek in the third week of June - lol.