Need help from the hand guys
spottedowl
2013-03-15 04:51:51
I'm tired, but he boy wants to get into this. So we are re rigging and setting up with the hand gear again. Here is my question, what do you guys do for your shoulders and elbows? I know, he wants to so let him, but I can't let him do it all and Ole Dad still needs to show the young buck how to get things done. But. Dam it hurts. Sounds crazy but I wish it was my back that hurt, at least I know how to deal with that. How do you get ready for, and during the day? Do you use any kind of salve or anything? He sure likes the groans and noises. Right now all I have is telling him that he will understand when he gets older. No way to rig hydraulics either so that's out.
Thanks for any help folks.
Kelper
2013-03-15 17:27:52
Get the best quality gurdies you can afford and get them mounted up right. Fish shallow drags... Don't try to be a powertroller and be out fishing 20+ fa of water with all kinds of gear out. Get in tight to the kelp and catch the fish the power trollers don't dare to go get. Also, learn to fish rods. Mooching can be a very effective way to catch kings.
That's the best advice I can give.
Once and Future
2013-03-15 22:12:39
Thera-Band FlexBars. I wish I had the resolve to exercise with them more often. These are rubber bars of different thicknesses that you bend and twist. Strengthens your forearms and your grip, and especially, increases blood flow to your tendons which promotes healing. Good for tennis elbow pain as well.
I am not a hand cranker, but an occupational therapist got me going on those years ago. For some reason, at my age, it feels like my forearm muscles have stiffened up or something. This helps quite a bit. In my case it is more for cleaning fish, squeezing snaps, etc.
You have to build up the muscles with these exercises weeks in advance of stressing them. The routine is you exercise every other day. The rest days allow for healing.
There are about 10 exercises in the booklet that they recommend. I'm sure you could look up the instructions beforehand to see if you think it would be helpful.
Salty
2013-03-15 22:32:21
I hand trolled for 6 years. I cranked four lines with up to 35 pound leads from up to 40 fathoms deep. I was a big stupid stubborn Norwegian of 6'3" about 250 lbs. of mostly muscle and bone in those days. My elbow still hurts every day.
Hand cranking seriously is not good for most of us. Their might be a few beasts out there who can handle it but even they will pay for it. We are big tough people in my family (both my sons were wrestling champions and basketball players.) I would have highly discouraged either of them from hand trolling with hand gurdies if they had expressed an interest.
I also hand hauled longlines for halibut in the late 70's. I would recommend it before hand cranking salmon.
I agree with kelper, if you have to go trolling and can not get set up with hydraulics then learn how to fish with four rods. It is a hell of a lot of fun and if that works out for you then move up to power trolling. If you fish rods then you have to learn how to fish bait, roll a whole herring, and rebait quickly. You also have to learn how to fish the kelp, move your gear through the water column, and fish dawn and dusk. Learning just the right spot to anchor in the current and let the current work your gear is part of the deal.
I know there are a few guys who still hand troll seriously on this site. I have nothing but respect for them. Well maybe a little bit of pity for the pain they are headed for. If you are good enough at this business to start catching with hand gurdies then you will seriously hurt yourself plus cost yourself thousands in lost production. With the short king seasons in July, when the kings are in the shallows, and most of the coho fishery a series of short intense bites off shore somewhere, hand cranking production has been compromised.
Having said all of that, I fondly remember my roots hand trolling, my grandfather spent a summer camped on the beach in Gedney Harbor hand trolling out of an open skiff, and I support hand trollers. I represented hand trollers during the years we were battling with power trollers and still bear political scars from those battles. Years later I supported ATA including hand trollers as members and offering board seats to them. More recently I supported allowing handtrollers to use downrigger type releases in the winter fishery.
There is nothing like catching a big king on a rod and then selling it for over a hundred, or hundreds of dollars. A handtroller recently sent me pictures of five nice kings he had caught one day this month on rods. (He wanted information on a hootchie.) There are times I wish we could use rods with our power troll permits. If we could there are places I would just anchor up and work the rods off the back of my boat.
I hope this is helpful, gave me a nice break from doing my taxes.
yak2you2
2013-03-16 04:39:22
Good gurdies is good advice. Placing them so they match your body is also important. Being cramped, or bent over makes it tougher. Try to avoid known bottomfish hangouts as best you can. Bag balm for the hands before the bunk at night. Switch arms and sides of the boat to spread out the wear. A good coco mat to stand on does wonders. Adds cushion to the feet, knees,and back. If you can get away with it, lighter balls always makes the job easier. The gurdie use always gets the blame, and deserves most of it, but there are other things that get to you too. Cutting down on un needed motion is important. Don't move the fish, then move em again. Setting up a good cleaning station at the right heigth is important. So is keeping your knife sharp. Good fishin'
yak2you2
2013-03-16 05:13:49
Stregth training in the offtime is good advice. Nothing worse than coming out of winter hibernation and going straight at it.
fanshawfan
2013-03-17 00:11:28
Think of yourself as a marathoner rather than a linebacker or burly type. 25 or 30 pounds is not a lot of weight, but you will do tons of reps... sort of like distance running with your arms. If you get in shape and stay in shape, you won't break down. I know some wheel chair marathoners who have been successful for many years. If your body says "I hurt", rest and healing is mandatory. I have hand trolled off and on for 34 years now, and I'm going back to it after a 3 year hiatus. I actually really enjoy getting the exercise in what is otherwise a fairly sedentary lifestyle. Long term hand trollers tend to be the wiry guys, not the big muscly types. Main thing I would say is to ease into it, and take a break when your body tells you to. All that said, I intend to move up to power as soon as finances will permit. :)
Salty
2013-03-17 02:14:53
[attachment=0]Skiff Handtroller High Anxiety 2007.jpg[/attachment]
Salty
2013-03-17 02:20:33
[attachment=0]79.jpg[/attachment]
Bill George, Handtroller for many years. Several on the "Judith" out of Petersburg.
Salty
2013-03-17 02:23:55
[attachment=0]67.jpg[/attachment]
Christian Jordan, handtrolling out of Gedney Harbor in 1963.
Salty
2013-03-17 02:25:50
[attachment=0]Fishing Scenes_001.jpg[/attachment]
Eric Jordan, Dan Prince, trolling at Gedney Harbor 1979.
Salty
2013-03-17 02:29:18
I was just thinking of the hand troll legacy in my family and how wonderful it is that we have the opportunity in Alaska, and elsewhere, to get into the salmon fishery for not much. That without the hand troll fishery I could never have afforded to get into trolling in the late 70's.
Today SE seine permits are worth over $250,000 and gillnet permits are worth over $100,000. Hand trolling is the affordable salmon fishery in SE.
Go get em.
spottedowl
2013-03-17 02:45:49
All good stuff thanks. I haven't been at this in just over 4 years now. I got out of it when the boy was really taking a big interest. I would rather show him fishing than falling. So we agreed that is what we will start with. getting into fishing shape is easier said than done. I looked at them flex bars and will try something like that, the Doc has some things he let me use for a while. Pulled all the riggin out of the barn and dusted things off and checked it all out. We need to make new rigger arms. Maybe we'll start with the small balls and not as many leaders. I like the idea of breaking in slow. Salty that first photo looks familiar, we have a 22' home built Dory. It will take some time fiddling with things to get all set up at the right height and good working stations. No dog house on this boat so that will be something to work on for working stations. And taking breaks when the body tells me to stop.
I guess time and getting to it is what it will take. Ug, why does he want to follow in Dads footsteps. Well at least it isn't logging, I drew a hard line on that one.
If anyone has anymore I will take everything I can get. This is going to hurt no way around that one.
I used to hand-troll for most of my teenage years and into my mid-20s. I had a pair of 2-spool Kolstrand power gurdies modified for hand-power and arranged on my boats so the cranks were always at least above my belt. A wise old timer warned me about having to bend over to crank and I am certain he extended my career by years. It sounds like you already have arm and probably shoulder problems and therefore pre-season conditioning of your arms is very important. Multiple reps with low weight to start out and gradually move up the amount of weight. Keep the motions smooth and not jerky. If you know someone who is a personal trainer they can give you some helpful arm exercises.
Don't forget to work on your core muscles so you will minimize the wear and tear on both your abs and your lower back muscles. I think too many people ignore this part of pre-season training and suffer from a "tired back" all season long because of it. Remember the amount of bending, twisting, lifting weight while your arms are extended - these all place a lot of torque on your back from the shoulder blades to the kidneys. If you have the room on your rig, try to stretch-out on the floor of the cabin before you get started in the morning, and even better - do stretching exercises before you hit the rack at night. These latter two steps will make a difference in how you feel out on the water. Hydrate at every opportunity. Not just coffee, either, lots of water is the best and will help keep your body ticking along like it is supposed to be doing. Have a great season.