Looking for Advice on Twisting Float line

Journey

2013-02-02 20:44:01

I have a problem with my port float line. It seems that the lead is spinning and twisting my line so that it kinks up when I make a turn into it. Last season I tried changing out the swivels, then the lead, but the only thing that seemed to help was keeping the line sucked in towards the boat instead of flying it out all the way. I don't want to spend another season constantly splicing. Retrieving a broken float line is even less fun. I need to figure this one out before I put on new wire. So what do I do?

Trnaround

2013-02-02 22:19:42

I totally understand the problem you are having. Try replacing all of your blocks usually it is just one but it is difficult to tell which one because they may turn and look like they are running fine. When they stop turning freely they put a curl in the wire just like if you took a ribbon and ran it over scissors. When you take tension off of the line like when you make a sharp turn it curls up then you get the kink when it straightens back out. There is no hope for the wire once it has run over dead blocks so replace the wire and the blocks. You don't notice it happening on the heavies or bowpoles because they always have tension but it will weaken the wire. Guaranteed the wire will last longer with good running blocks.

afteryou

2013-02-02 22:35:49

This problem makes me so mad I've thought about running spectra or something similar between the tag line and the block. Anyone tried this? Best thing I can do is keep them tight. Suck in the outside line when you turn sharp.

Salty

2013-02-02 22:54:24

Make sure you have good ball bearing swivels at the end of your tag line.

Going to bow poles eliminates when you run off the mains without bags.

Fishing off shore on long straight tacks minimizes this problem.

Weaving your way down the drag working an edge instead of running a nice straight line acerebates this problem.

Working chum schools with this problem will ruin your day.

I agree with trnaround.

Here is an example of what can happen circling on a chum school.

Salty

2013-02-02 22:57:23

~~[attachment=0]~~leader and hooks, tangled.jpg[/attachment]

Another example of the tangles that can result from inadequate wire swiveling.~~[attachment=0]~~leader and hooks, tangled.jpg[/attachment]

Journey

2013-02-02 23:12:15

Thanks Trnaround, I'll replace the blocks.

afteryou

2013-02-02 23:58:04

I hate that it sucks. I like the look on the guys face though.

I was working a school of chums real hard last year. I was right up on the beach they were flooding by me in hoards but you had to really work at it to get them to bite.

So a big tides flooding out and I’m tucked into this little pocket using a small point that’s sticking out in front of me down current for a lead to guide the fish right into my gear (sweet). I’m swerving hard side to side I’m taking the boat in and out of gear to stay in my pocket and to tease the fish. I could see a few guys (my buddies) had figured out what I was doing and were starting to crowd me wanting into my little piece of heaven. I wasn’t gonna’ give it up, But #### I was still gaining on that point. I was alone on the boat so I had really bitten off a lot to chew. I fell back on my last resort. If I could just hang in a little longer they would shoot past me and I could make a long turn back into my spot. I put the engine in reverse… What’s that noise… OH CRAP. Then silence no more Jimmy. I had been towing a beat up old brailer bag behind the boat. Earlier that day because the tides were so big and it was messing up my float bags I had pulled the brailer in close to the back of the boat, oops!

So I dashed back to the pit to see what could be done (remember I’m in a little pocket and the currents running hard). I grabbed the towline and pulled. You never know it could happen, well it didn’t the whole #### bag is wrapped up in my prop.

With my lightning quick reflexes I knew the first thing I had to do was get the float bags up to the back of the boat. Instantly I undo the break on the first guirdie and started to spool it in by hand. I got that bag half way in before my brain caught up with my hands and I went back into the wheelhouse put the boat in neutral and started the engine back up, alright hydraulics. While all this was going down the boats careening down on that point.

I was lucky enough to miss the point. I hung up in eight fathoms of water on a nice sandy beach with thirty fathoms of flasher gear out. Three out of the four lines were sewed together. It took me a long time but I got most everything back. I think I lost maybe ten bugs and half a dozen flashers and almost all my leaders.

The up side to this story is that one of my buddies was nice enough to tow me into town so I could hire a diver. I now only tow off my poles so that if I should ever feel the need to troll backwards again I can do so safely. :D

SilverT

2013-02-03 00:24:57

Great story and those are some of our favorite pics on the forum. Someone on another thread said to make sure that the wire runs over the blocks in the same direction that it comes off the the gurdie spool. It's probably not your issue, but it made such a huge difference that I include it here just the same.

Lane

lone eagle

2013-02-03 02:35:27

i was told to rig wire that way and it surprises me to see gurdies rigged with the wire spooled on the outboard side, some of those guys have fished that way all their lives. Another thing...regular swivels may not work under a load, sampo bearings will. how about fixing a fin to the lead?

Trnaround

2013-02-03 14:37:30

Don't we get into the most awful tangles at times, ha ha, love the look on the face of the deck hand - says it all. Great story afteryou. We jokingly have tangle classes, (that would be a class 5 ). Never thought of which side of the gurdy the wire should come off, always had it coming over the top like the blocks (less angle probably puts less resistance on the first block). My control handle runs "in is in and pointed out it runs out", alot easier for my simple brain. If you had it coming off of the outboard side wouldn't it reverse it? Then port and starboard gurdies run opposite directions so maybe they were installed backwards, hard to say. Anyway those dead blocks kill your wire for sure. That's why you notice it on one side even though you hook the leads and everything else up the same way. Drive you crazy.

Salty

2013-02-03 18:41:15

Great story after you. Should post it in the stories thread also.

The most common wire problem for trollers is the port float bag because we mostly turn port. I keep mine tight to help minimize this problem. One of my partners runs out and tightens it up nearly every time he turns port. Needless to say he likes long straight tacks.

A friend of mine had his autopilot screw up and he went completely around and wrapped his wires all the way around the boat. In a flash of brilliance he just put it hard over the other way and unwrapped himself.

One of the great challenges of my trolling career when I ran float bags on tight drags was figuring out which side of the float bag coming at me I needed to go on.

paul

2013-02-03 18:51:26

afteryou

2013-02-03 18:58:14

I use a piece of UHMW with a hole drilled in it that slides loosely on the wire and always takes up the tension on the wire when you turn. You can also snap a weight on your wire. I have'nt had a kink in years.

Thanks for posting, I've thought about doing something like that for a while. I think I will have to give it a try this year. :)

Salty

2013-02-03 19:20:39

Paul, can you post a picture? When you run your line does the tag stop just slide through it and it rides on top of your fairlead? Sounds like a great idea, but I am a bit slow on understanding, can you explain a bit more for us "old" guys?

paul

2013-02-03 19:27:06

It's raining too hard too take a picture. The hole is big enough for the stop to go through. It's good for old guys to use their brain a little bit.

Salty

2013-02-03 19:34:04

Please describe brain? Where would I find that.

fvsedna

2013-02-03 20:14:25

I am a little slow getting this post accomplished, I see you guys have progressed right along.....If I didn't know better I probably would of had a difficult time Imagining what the discussion was concerning the direction the wire needs to come off the spool before heading to the first block. So, I sketched a stick drawing Illustration. Dummies like me like pictures...& I know there are other dummies out there. The red dotted line Illustrates the wrong side. Also, I have seen many boats running only one block between the gurdie & the tag line....which Is hard on wire also, for a couple reasons; In Brief, the flatter the angle from where the wire enters the block & leaves the block the better. Example In the sketch, the wire leaving the gurdie & entering & leaving the block Is a little more than 90 degrees...the greater that angle ...say If I twas 160 degrees & rolling over the block & down Into the water with tension on it represents one of the worst case scenarios. The 2nd block Is fairly flat...maybe 30 degrees...which Is great. Which brings up the other reason for two blocks...one block doesn't "mend" the wire evenly on the gurdie spool very well...the wire "pops" under load more when retrieving & playing out. That 2nd block will always allow the wire to travel true & strait to the block above the gurdie...less tension ...less twist...less wear...better scenario for the life of the wire. I know I am preaching to the choir to most of you.....no, Insult Intended...

now I betterpost this & catch up to where this thread Is at....

Andrew

standin' by...

Journey

2013-02-04 05:36:16

Good picture, fvsedna. No such thing as too much information. I've been told it's also important to feed new wire onto the gurdies the same way it comes off the spool. I'd be interested to see a picture too, paul. If not, about how big of a piece do you use? I'm not sure if that alone would fix my problem. My wire doesn't just kink, it actually twists back on itself- to the point where sometimes you have to stick the gaff into it and untwist. Makes a lot of sense, salty, that the port side would have more problems since we usually turn that way. Lone Eagle- can you tell more about what those fins are for? I've seen some of the California guys use them, but I don't know much about them. Thanks for all the help guys!

Kelper

2013-02-04 06:15:31

I'm curious.. do you guys ever just run your heavies and forget about float bags when you've got kings up tight on the beach and you are cutting in and out to hit where the kings are? I'm sure it might cut down on production a bit, but by the looks of that tangle in the picture, you won't be that far behind if you have to get that mess undone.

Journey

2013-02-04 06:27:42

I did last spring Kelper, but only because I had a hard time giving up some of my 14ftm hand troll drags. Not sure if it was actually more productive though.

fvsedna

2013-02-04 06:51:57

Journey

Yes, feed new wire on the gurdie the way It comes off the spool......when the wire twists up like that...replace the blocks they are locking up either occasionally or more often than not. Next time out on the water take the lead off & let the wire out while running, helping It at first until enough Is out to drag the remainder on Its own. Run it down until the last few wraps...that should help relax the wire & take out any twist or memory. Then still while running roll It back In while holding a little tension with a gloved hand.....make sure you are In deep enough water...even though the wire Is trailing far behind & would guess 70+ fathoms of wire may still sink down 10-15 fa. or so...

Andrew

Salty

2013-02-04 18:37:09

Then after that go to deep water put a fifty pound or so lead on it and, if the season is open, put a spoon and a flasher on it. Run it out about 80 fathoms marking your stops with colored wire at your favorite depths. I have done this several time. One time I caught a 13 pound king. This is a good time to tune your blocks so that they are perfectly lined up with your gurdies. Also a good time to check your voltage on each wire.

Attention to detail is so important in trolling. For a donation I will send a PM with a picture on my new system for connecting leads to the wire and lead spoon directly above the wire. Is really working great.