sharks
khaos
2012-10-18 21:46:09
Curious to know how often you guys run into salmon sharks? Where I fish in Northern Southeast, they are rather infrequent during most years, but I can remember a few where they were an everyday affair, and quite troublesome. Do trollers encounter them all up and down the coast? How bad do they get around Yakutat, or POW? Do they get in on the Neets chums too?
Anyone had a shark take your fish before you can bonk it?
Never had one stay on very long (luckily), they cut the leader or break it pretty easily. Seen some big ones that had to be 10' or more, and once had 3 following the boat and I couldn't get anything up past 50' before one would take it.
Seem to be most common during heavy pink or chum runs, and I've had problems with them at Funter, Couverden, and off Yakobi. I hear you can see hundreds of them finning in PWS, but I've only seen a dozen or so myself in the last ten years.
2002 or 2003 seemed to be the "shark" year that I remember - the only year I went to using wire leaders ahead of the flashers. Was losing several each day, it was driving me crazy. Never found a hoochie they wouldn't snip, but I did discover they had a particular liking for green piscator's, and would cut that off before the hotspots. Also they seemed to like white kings as much as we do...... They seemed to disappear after September, and I've only had one shark attack in October, and one in April.
I guess they are not as bad as sea lions, but the tax man takes his toll!
Abundance
2012-10-19 01:13:52
I've personally never had problems with salmon sharks in the summer here on western Prince of Wales. Winter time, they can show up pretty heavy. It got so bad a few January's back that I couldn't even get a cod to the surface. I even had two salmon sharks on the gear at once at once later that month. I usually stop having salmon shark problems after March. Blue sharks are the main thing. I remember many times that, from Cape Addington to Helm Point, you could never look out the window without seeing two or three blue fins in view. They usually peak in late August and early September. My Dad once caught a 20+ foot Great White off of Whale Bay. Sharks have never bothered me as much as they do some people. The worst that they have ever taken from me was 25 cohos one day. I think that I had a very good day that day, and actually felt a little grateful that the sharks kept the sea lions off of me. I wouldn't have had anything if the furry faces had gotten on me. I remember one time, I was probably about ten or so, taking a pee off the side of our boat anchored in Pole Anchorage. A humpy came shooting through the water like a bullet inside our stabilizer, and not a foot behind it, a massive blue shark with its eyes rolled back and its mouth opened wide. I jumped backward onto my rump, pants around my ankles. I'm never forgetting that one. Other than that, the only other shark I've caught trolling is the occasional spiny dogfish. Some people treat them with real contempt. I've never gotten that myself. They don't taste half bad, and they lead really interest lives. They live a hundred years. Blue shark isn't as good of eating, but worth tinkering with. My great grandfather fished for six-gill sharks during WWII in Clarence Strait. I'd actually like to do that just once, if it were legal. Those things are huge and fascinating. I've also caught a lot of big skates longlining. They are my favorite cartilaginous fish to eat. They taste like scallops. I've never eaten ratfish, aka chimera, but hear they are a bit tasteless. A word of warning, you need to make sure that there is no cartilage left in the meat when you cook it. It will melt into a gooey mess that you wont be able to stomach even looking at.
Kelper
2012-10-19 01:52:47
Garrett,
What's your favorite way to cook up skates?
Abundance
2012-10-19 02:13:54
I usually cut the meat into cubes, fry them in olive oil and sprinkle on fresh crushed garlic. Try putting it in spaghetti or seafood chowders. I bet that breaded and deep fried like a scallop would be a dandy use for them too. There is relatively little meat on one, just the wings. Some people only take the bottom side of the wing, but I think that the upper side is worth keeping. The carcasses make dandy shrimp and crab bait as well.
khaos
2012-10-19 16:29:54
I've tried ratfish once, Garrett, and cooked beside spiny dogfish - I preferred it over the little sharks. Not real fun to fillet, but if you don't mind dealing with skates, I'm sure you can manage. Dogfish are fine if carefully bled (just like most fish), but I cut the above and below spines off right away because they seem to stick you worse than the teeth.
Had no idea there were so many blue sharks out your way - is there a market for them?
Only eaten the longnose skate before and didn't care for it, stringy mushy meat - maybe the big skates are better?
Abundance
2012-10-19 17:40:16
The skates that I have eaten were longnose skates. they were very, very big longnose skates though. It is a fact that they are somewhat soft, but I've never had a stringy one. I wonder if they vary in quality from fish to fish depending on what they have been eating. I like skate more than anyone else in my family, so it could be a matter of personal taste. As part of their internal cooling system, shark blood carries urea, so a guy wants to be absolutely sure to get the blood out. Their is no commercial fishing for sharks in Alaska that I know of, except for an aborted seine fishery for salmon sharks in Prince William Sound and a brief test fishery for dogfish in Clarence Strait. ADF&G has been very resistant to any shark fisheries. I think the idea is that the feds would get involved, and the state really doesn't want that.
khaos
2012-10-20 18:32:05
If sharks would be managed federally, then that explains it. Not sure what it would be like trolling for 200 lb blue sharks, but I'm sure we could figure it out.
I have to tip my hat to you sir - my attitude of losing 25 coho to sharks in one day would not be the same as yours. It isn't like the old days - every fish counts now!
How did your dad get the great white?
Abundance
2012-10-20 21:55:03
He didn't actually get it. The way he told it last, he saw his floatbag go limp on the water, and his wingline drag way back. Then then he saw a massive sleet gray fin poke out of the water way behind his boat. He got the thing nearly to his boat, and rolled on its side and looked up at him. At that point, he panicked and shot into the water. The shark also panicked and took off for the horizon. I think he had a 53' Seamaster at the time, and he said the shark was nearly half the length of the boat, twice the size of the biggest salmon sharks he'd seen, and he'd seen quite a few. I think that trolling for sharks would be a lot of fun. I know that when the salmon sharks showed up heavy that winter, I really wanted to break out the big fishing pole with wire leader. You'd have to get a lot of money for them to make it worthwhile, but I can see that. A mid-water longline would likely be more effective. I have never had many problems with sharks, and rarely have them take more than one or two fish a day. Like I said, when they are around I rarely have sea lion problems. That twenty five coho loss was the absolute worst shark theft I've ever had. A sea lion attack can be ten times that. My dad lost a 30+ pound king to those salmon sharks last winter. He was able afford to eat a half a big winter king for the first time though!
khaos
2012-10-21 21:56:30
Garrett,
Your dad sounds like quite a guy! I can't imagine how a shark that big would look on the line, obviously lifting the cannonball up and out! Those are the kind of stories I was hoping to hear when I started this post!
Trolling for big sharks would indeed be a rush, but our gear would certainly take a thrashing - those things are strong! Salmon sharks jump too, which could make the entire scenario even more crazy. Word has it that they are very good eating, and I doubt it would be difficult to get a market going, and at $2 a pound it would be worth doing. Longline would be more effective for sure, and I'm still not sure the numbers are there to support such a measure. Could try limited entry for a while to see how it works though....
Never realized that sharks keep the sea lions away, but if so, sounds like a fair trade. Wish they would eat a few, but I've never heard of any record of that.
I once was lining a big king that was really giving me a hard time on a long leader. The water went red behind the boat and the line went lifeless. Pulled in half a fish, once a beautiful white, and it still weighed 19.5 lbs. Never saw that shark, but he took a few smaller fish before he left me alone. Like you said though, I got to eat fresh white king that night. And the next.
On a different note - did Ketchikan take round cohos again this season?
Abundance
2012-10-22 01:26:27
I never asked if they were taking them in the round, but I don't think that they were. I just sold them dressed. I considered selling them round last year, but the price was just enough better dressed that I didn't see the advantage. If a guy was catching more than he could handle, that would be a good option. Sadly, that was not my problem. About the salmon sharks eating sea lions, I know that seals are listed as their prey and a friend of mine insists he saw one eat a sea lion off of Graveyard Island in front of Craig a few Januaries back. Talking about fishing for sharks got me to remembering a handtroller friend of mine in Wrangell. He trolled tuna out of Hawaii back in the 70's, and said that they caught a lot of sharks. He said the price of mako and blue sharks was pretty darn good. I don't know if they can do that anymore though. Using tuna gear seems a lot more effective for catching large fish than salmon gear. I wonder what the tuna fishermen on here have to say about that. There probably all out fishing right now. I don't plan on fishing again until November. The salmon reports around here are mighty grim, but now I want to see if the salmon sharks are hanging around yet!
Even though I should have known better, I got a little too close to White Sisters one day while Coho fishing in the late 90s. In short order we had a large bull lion begin to peel one fish after another off my lines. I tried passing him off to another boat on the same drag but when that didn't work (he probably already had a couple lions of his own), I started up through the cabin to pull out my seal bombs. I heard the normally tight-lipped puller hooting and hollering so I went back to the cabin door to see what he was excited about and saw a hell of a commotion on the surface between the stern and the floats. The puller said he heard a big splash right behind the boat and turned in time to see a sealion come out of the water with a big piece of his butt and hind flipper missing and a blue shark right behind him! There was splashing and blood on the water for about another 30 seconds. I made a note in my log (because I had never seen or heard of a shark going after a sealion by a troller before) - turned out to put some more distance from the beach and had no further lion problems for the remainder of the day.
Abundance
2012-10-23 03:20:07
Well, I'm sure not going swimming anymore. That's a good story. I'm going to remember it on bad sea lion days to cheer me up. I've heard lots of stories of orcas eating sea lions, but I guess that a shark could eat them under the water whereas an orca might need to breath when ripping something up. Telling your story to my Dad around the stove this evening, he says that he saw a frenzy of blue sharks tear apart and eat a sea lion at Cape Cross years ago. He said that he could see blood in the water everywhere. Its a dangerous life, in the ocean.
khaos
2012-10-23 03:34:19
Ok, now I don't want to catch them sharks anymore - hope a bunch show up around here and I won't mind donating a few fish to them. I would ALWAYS rather lose a fish to a shark over a sea lion. Thanks for the confirmation!
akfisher78
2012-10-23 04:43:44
Somewhat off topic but ran a boats on both coasts of Costa Rica and Nicaragua for years and I got to see Orcas attacking a schools of Sailfish about 60 miles off the Southern coast of Costa Rica on the Pacific side and have got to see many Bull Sharks attack Tarpon up to 100 lbs! One time I watched a friend of mine release a Tarpon and within 1/2 a second a Bull Shark bit it in half! One thinks back on the time spent over the years on the Ocean and can't count how many times you said " Man, I wish I had my camera, oh well I will start bringing it" Then it never happens you still forget it most of the time! But in the end it means more to us that what pictures could ever show someone who wasnt there!
Abundance
2012-10-23 06:10:28
I would really like to hear some of your stories of tropical water fishing. It sounds like you have some great ones. I get what you mean about pictures. I never seem to have a camera around when I catch the biggest fish. My handtroller friend in Wrangell saw orcas kill a gray whale and a humpback at different times last year, and didn't have a camera at either time. a once in a lifetime sight, twice, and neither time prepared. Interestingly enough, orcas like to eat sharks. I read that they put them into a catatonic state by flipping them upside down so they cannot breath or fight back, then like to eat the shark livers. truly the apex predator of the ocean.