Anybody using Brown's Gas - Forums Archive

kalitan97828

2011-09-26 16:07:17

I believe that some vessels are using Brown's gas which is HOH . This is produced by a hydrogen gererator splitting distilled water and infusing the gas into your intake manifold. This leads to more complete combustion of your diesel fuel. I have a 671 and assume you would tap into the blower housing. Claims are that you will recognize a ten to fifteen percent fuel saving. Is anyone familiar with this or has it installed?

actionalaska

2011-09-27 04:05:08

Probably would be really easy to retrofit, but the question is do you really want to introduce an extremely unstable fuel into the high temperature/elevated pressure environment of a blower manifold. Better be really careful and look into your blower outlet pressure and temperature. I would think that it would be extremely volatile fuel/air mixture susceptible to pre combustion in the manifold before being sucked into the combustion chamber. Possibly with some hindenburg style unwanted results. If the compressed and heated hydrogen/air mixture is considered stable at the outlet pressure/temperature produced by your 6-71's blower at operating temperature then you will have great results, 6-71's blowers operate at slightly higher than atmospheric pressure, however i'm thinking that the temp will be the more important factor. Take engine room temps, compress slightly inside a hot motor, and you might hit combustion temp for hydrogen. Browns gas is introduced in a gas form, not liquid so there will be no evaporative cooling effect as in carbeurated gasoline motors. I don't think that any increases in power will result from more complete combustion. Diesels, when operating correctly, don't leave any unburned fuel in the combustion chamber. You might need to change injectors to keep from overheating as the same amount of diesel will be injected into the combustion chamber no matter how much hydrogen you introduce. I know that alternate computer programming is needed to change the fuel injection in modern vehicles to allow for hydrogen introduction, and jets need to be changed to allow for the extra fuel in carbeurated gasoline motors. Your best bet in my opinion if you are looking for more fuel economy is upgrade to an electronic diesel with a loan through the state. Or rebuild your 6-71 and make sure your cylinders have really good compression. I"d hate to be broken down during the season with custom engine fuel systems and hardly anyone available to trouble shoot and make parts. Hope this helps.

actionalaska

2011-09-27 04:13:21

I would also carefully check into the amount of electricity needed to decompose the water into H and O. If it produces a big load on the engine to drive the alternator so it can make the energy required to split the water into the two elements, you might actually end up with a negative effect. Something else to think about.

kalitan97828

2011-09-27 14:59:34

Comments are appreciated. I see that there is a not very helpfull article in this month's National Fisherman. It does have a few leads to follow up on. One question I have is where does any improved fuel economy come in-ie-do you get more RPM for the same trottle setting or do you get the same speed at a lower setting? Last summer I was tied along side a tender who fired up his main and showered my vessel with soot. That did not come from completely combusted fuel.

birdfeeder11

2011-09-27 17:10:52

Lol. Wow U don't think that an increases in power is from more complete combustion. What do u think electrontc engines do. that stupid computer on the side of the engine is controlling fuel delivery in a perfect world the ecu would deliver fuel at tdc top dead cente which would give u max stroke with your piston every time around resulting in an increase in power by more complet combustion.

actionalaska

2011-09-28 05:28:19

Computer controlled engines monitor exhaust gas temperature, oxygen content of exhaust gasses, turbo pressure( if turbo equipped), fuel flow, fuel temp, inlet air temp, inlet air mass, cam and crank position, throttle position, and numerous other parameters. They monitor these things thousands of times per second, and the computer notices trends in these readings, the computer will then apply it's programming to change the amount of fuel introduced into the engine. This is what makes computer controlled engines more efficient, they maximize the ratio of heat energy being used to drive the boat/heat energy being introduced into the engine in the form of fuel.

reciprocating engines have always allowed for the firing of the fuel air charge before top dead center. Hence the vacuum advance, and flyweight advance systems on old points/condenser/ coil ignition systems. The tag on most engines that says "Ignition timing X degrees BTDC" BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTER.

At no time is a firing at TDC the most efficient way to run a reciprocating engine.

So Birdfeeder11 to make a comment of "LOL, Wow," as if to insinuate that it is common knowledge that electronic controlled diesels are far more efficient because they fire at TDC, exhibits your complete ignorance of reciprocating engine theory. Your response which is completely negative is also extremely contrary to the whole spirit of this forum, which in my opinion, is to share information, and help eachother through challenges, not scoff at others for perceived lack of knowledge.

"To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge."

kalitan97828

2011-09-28 15:27:32

Thanks ActionAlaska. I can not be the only fisherman with a perfectly good non- computerized engine that is a fuel monster. I like others are searching for ways to improve fuel economy without the expense of replacing the engine. By the way, Hutton Marine out of Ballard has a system that induces a platinum based catalyist into the intake manifold with much the same results as those claimed for Brow'n's gas. It appears that a number of larger vessels are installing the technology.

captain58

2011-09-29 20:52:26

I wonder if those of us that are running a gen set already for the freezer hold, would benefit seeing how the generator is already running, granted there would be more of a load on the generator but if you could reduce your fuel consumption on the main and the gen set by the amounts that the article in National Fisherman is talking about, it would be worth a look.

kjwelder

2011-09-30 18:53:23

I know someone who put a hydrogen kit into his gas pickup. He paid $300 for the kit and got about 50% better fuel economy.

I don't know how this would work with our decile engines.

Seems to me that the best way to cut fuel costs (besides cleaning your bottom) and keeping the fuel and air systems clean, would be to have a fuel flow meter installed to monitor real time fuel consumption at different rpm's.

Does anyone have fuel flow meters on their boat ? Any recommendations?

kj

SilverT

2011-10-01 00:47:38

Thanks for all the great explanations. I couldn't add much to this thread until this question came along, as we don't have diesels, but we do have flow meters for our gas engines. They are amazingly accurate and make it quick to tell at what rpms we get the best performance. Perhaps as beneficial has been the ability to compare data gathered immediately after a tune-up to current fuel consumption. It becomes really apparent when an injector plugs, even partially. Even when that cylinder is still firing and apart from the meter there is no obvious problem, the fuel consumption changes considerably. I wouldn't have thought to install them, but they came with the boat and we find ourselves watching them all the time. I'm sure they have saved us hundreds of dollars each season. The meters I have are for high flows, so they probably wouldn't be the best for diesels.

Lane