Chain length on Stabilizers
Jamill45
2015-03-29 17:30:12
I am in the process of rigging up my stabilizers and I am having some questions about whether I am doing it right? Is there a standard size of chain used? What length of chain is standard?
Thanks in advance!
Jake
Depends upon boat length, depth of your boat, and placement of the poles. Generally, you want the floppers twice the depth of the boat. But, you need to consider the chance of the floppers getting fouled in the prop or still being too short they'll jump out of the water in an unruly sea, there is a balance. Suggest rigging Canadian style with a one foot length of chain suspended from the pole. Attach flopper line to chain with a shackle. Then run a line to the bow connected to the same shackle on the chain. This set up distributes some of the load to the bow verses all forces trying to bend the pole in half. Also need to place a pad eye opposite the flopper and run a line to the mast, again distributing the forces to another point verses all on the pole. I use .5" chain I don't think it matters just as long as you can get everything in the boat. Some smaller boats use cable reducing drag so the floppers are as forward as possible and out of the way of the tip line. Cable is hard to pull and tough on the hands, even with gloves. Walk the docks to get some ideas before investing the time and money.
I think you want to run the stabilizers at least 3 fathoms deep, 4 fathoms is better but like Lulu said, it depends on the size of your boat and how far out on the pole they are. Mine were about 3 fathoms down and I had a stabilizer launch out of the water when I was drifting. Not a good feeling. I think that 1/2" chain is over-kill and will have lots more drag than is necessary. 5/16" chain is good or 3/8" if you have a big boat.
good luck,
jonathan
Salty
2015-03-30 03:54:11
The key here is stainless chain vs cable or galvanized. Costs more but a bargain.. Slides through the water and sheds kelp much better than the others. Easier on the hands than cable and doesn't stain your boat with rust like galvanized.
kjwelder
2015-03-30 04:46:47
I'm rigging my new boat with spectra (also called spectron or dyneema or kevlar) line to the staybies. 1/4 is 6000 pound breaking strength.
Jamill45
2015-03-30 06:24:13
Thanks for the responses.
I can't find stainless chain here in Juneau - is it readily available at Murray Pacific in Sitka or Ketchikan?
Are you using just spectra without chain?
I you decide to go with the standard galvanized chain, try a 3" zinc on the flopper to help keep the rusting down. I also think it helps bring the fish to the snotters.
Salty
2015-03-31 05:12:22
Stainless available at Murray in Sitka. KJ welder might be on to something with Spectra. He is usually leading the way.
kjwelder
2015-03-31 05:21:25
Just spectra. No chain.
Once and Future
2015-03-31 14:46:01
KJ: 1/4" may be 6,000 lb breaking strength, but what about the shock load and pressure focused on one point of the spectra if you snag a log? Also, going to have to be very careful with the knife if you have to cut some kelp off in the rough.
curmudgeon
2015-03-31 17:36:29
I'm with KJ. Been using spectra (Am-Steel) for a couple seasons. Less drag, and no more clanking heavy chains! We haul in the stabies using the 3rd gurdie-spool so clearing kelp is easy using a sharp machete and hacking down away from the spectra and the haul-in line from the gurdie. Even crew could do it! <grin>
dellori3
2015-04-01 02:10:48
Wow,when I read this I was surprised for that is are conclusion. We rigging the entire boat with Dyneema . we selected 1/8 @ 2000 lbs. for our small boat.
It could be the new trend in rigging
Del
dellori3
2015-04-01 02:15:57
If this is on a small boat, the rule of thumb is to prevent it from reaching the prop! forget chain use a cable or Dyneema and soft haul in line.
Del
Salty
2015-04-01 06:29:02
Interesting, I imagine this is how rigging evolves these days.
Trnaround
2015-04-01 16:08:28
Other than abrasion resistance, I always thought the chain added weight to the stable so that it would drop better in heavy seas. If you are underway it probably makes little difference but at slow speeds, turns in heavy seas or drifting it may make a difference. Seems like it would be nice to eliminate the chain. Easy enough to correct if you don't like it though.
Furuno
2015-04-01 21:32:22
For 6 seasons I've used 3 fathoms of 3/8 Spectra on my 45f boat. No corrosion, no rust, and very easy to haul by hand. The Canadian rigging described earlier is bestfor strength. I was initially worried about chafing, but that hasn't been a problem. I'm hoping to get 6 more years out ot the Spectra.
Salty
2015-04-02 04:21:08
Like, Furuno.
Jackson
2015-04-02 18:46:52
All these timely posts with new ideas while re-rigging my "new" boat. I might have to try this.
curmudgeon
2015-04-02 21:39:34
Jackson, these ex-Canadian boats with snooters like ours have all those forward and aft stays for the poles. Dunno about yours, but mine were all steel cables made of what looked like telephone pole guy-wire and had shackles and turnbuckles all over the place. I hated the look of it and the whole lash-up was so heavy that I needed to use the capstan winch to bring the poles up. So in 2012 I replaced everything with Amsteel-Blue spectra and eliminated all the shackles and turnbuckles by using thimbles and lashings. Now I can raise the poles easily by hand without the hydraulics and if I get ambitious or in a hurry I can raise them both at the same time! And as Furuno says, the spectra has held up great and should last many more years.
curmudgeon
2015-04-02 21:55:44
Jackson
2015-04-03 19:40:39
Thanks Mike, I'll check out that thread. Yes it sounds like our boats were rigged about the same. Hard stays are definitely on the list for the future.
Cables, wires, lines, they all annoy me. Why the heck I got into trolling is beyond me...hah!
Let me confirm my understanding on the Spectra Blue. Did I understand 3/8" spectra can replace chain? I'm using big flopper, I think its a #3, with 30# of lead on the nose (half of a 60# lead).
I'd love to get rid of the chain. It just beats the boat up.
kjwelder
2015-04-06 05:12:01
U have 40 foot steel boat, right?
Assuming your rigging and stays are stout u could probably use 1/2. 3/8 has 6600# breaking strength. Spliced and knots reduce the load limit.
Yep, 40 feet of steel. Like driving a loaded 18 wheeler with no brakes. And I'm tired of grinding and re-prepping the gunnel after dragging chain across them all season. I think I'll give it a go with .5"
Lulu - I used 1/2-inch Spectra to replace stainless cable for my stabilizers on my last boat, a 54-foot steel Ft Bragg (Lackey) hull. I was skeptical at first but was very satisfied with how it worked-out. At the time, I hadn't installed it's rolling chocks yet and I was using a set of plywood stabilizers that were 42-inches across - with a 35# lead on the nose (half of a 70# cannonball).
On my current boat I'm using stainless chain so I can pull my stabilizers in with my third gurdy spool. I have SS quick links attached to the chain at [roughly] 4-foot intervals, with the haul-up line running through the quick links and attached to the chain about 2-feet above the stabilizer. I'm convinced that this hull fishes better with the SS chain in the water.
Salty
2015-04-07 20:03:34
Lulu, I have the exact same set up with Chain and clips. Karl set it up for me. I love it.
This is interesting. My floppers, which sound to be about the same size as JKD's, have a SS fin which I put a 3" diameter zinc on every season. I'm using standard galvanized chain, 14'. I started with the zincs to cut down on the rust, but found (maybe my imagination) that the snooters fished better with a new zinc. So I started scubbing the scale off when they get white to keep them active. I hate to give up the fish over a little bit of maintenance.
Getting old. One answer to my wife's "when you selling the boat?" was "when I can't get the floppers up." But, I think I can find a way to ease the effort. I'm thinking about how you have skinned the cat. Some harbors I fish, you have to pull the poles and floppers in open ocean, it's got to be quick and easy. Lulu is a Monk hull and she rolls like a beer barrel on Sat nite. Though about extending the rolling caulks, but I always run out of money, imagine that?
Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate them.
PS I am using 1/8 AmSteel as tag line. It works really well. Just replaced the first generation after 6 years because I noticed a little stray current in the tag lines. Six years of salt would account for that.
kjwelder
2015-04-08 05:32:27
Can you post a pic of Lulu? Monk designs are one of the best. I enjoy seeing wood, glass, and metal boats fabricated by the same designer.
kj
I have to figure out how. Give me 24 hours. I need to do some work on the boat this am and pm. I'll do it to night. they'll be from the haulout. Maybe I can drop a pole so you can see how the floppers and poles are rigged, including the cheater.
How do you post pictures?
Salty
2015-04-09 06:27:49
Are you using computer, phone, or tablet?
Salty
2015-04-09 06:29:02
1. Go to full editor
2. Press upload attachment
3. Press choose file
4 press photo library
5 choose pic
6 press add file
7 press place inline
8 press preview
9 press submit
[attachment=0]image.jpg[/attachment]
Salty
2015-04-09 06:36:53
It used to be that we had to reduce the size of the pics when loading from the computer. Loading files taken with my iPhone or iPad Without reducing.
Thanks Salty. I down loaded photos off the iPhone to the computer, so I'll upload from the computer doc files. I haven't got time right now because I'm involved in the council meetings drawing up our 2015 season structure. Hopefully the screaming and stomping feet will be over in a day or two and we can go "do what we do" i.e. fish.
By the way, that's a beautiful specimen.
Salty
2015-04-12 02:32:24
Thx.
JYDPDX
2015-04-15 16:45:37
How do you get your stabilizers to not tug hard on the rigging when drifting or underway at idle in the trough. My entire mast and A-frame rumble, in fact the house shudders. Its A-framed aluminum pipe with addition of two side cable stays, a forestay and two back stays. everything is tight. There is also a Canadian safety to the pole that is tight against the grasshopper. I have stared at it for lengths of time and am baffled…. I have the wooden stabies from Murrays (I think they’re 32s with a complete cannonball) - the chain connected to the furthest back digging position.
It seems like the most of the stress comes not at the moment of impact but a second after the chain comes taught if/when there is slack.
Its not intermittent either, happens every hard roll.
Any ideas or insights greatly appreciated.
Salty
2015-04-16 02:37:56
Samson line from pole to just above waterline. Cushions the jar.
JYDPDX
2015-04-16 03:34:19
Samson Braid: Check
Salty
2015-04-16 15:14:58
The best solution is anchoring in a bay or cove where you don't need stables. Sleep better, make better decisions, catch more fish, have more fun, extends your fishing career.
Try switching one to a different attachment position and see if there is a difference. If that doesn't work, you might have to get out your saw and make the wood part of the stabies smaller.
I had problems with this last year. I had the stabies 2 sizes smaller than the biggest (the wood ones from murray's) and they didn't do enough to counteract the rolling. So I moved to one size bigger. Well that size actually had the same size lead on it as the smaller size and the only difference was a bigger piece of wood. This resulted in the stabies taking longer to sink than the roll of the boat and I actually busted one of the pole mounts when I was running with only one stabie in the water. I'm putting on new mast and poles and will try the largest stabies. If I have to cut them down a bit to get them balanced right I will do that.
Crawfish
2015-04-16 15:51:40
This said by a man who obviously knows his stuff :)
Although even if it's flat I still throw them out in the anchorage. My boat rides 200% better with them in.
Salty
2015-04-16 18:15:57
LOL Crawfish
Definitely, throw them in when needed and don't pull them until your back in the harbor. Sleep like a baby at anchor with the floppers in.
Salty
2015-04-20 05:46:30
So,
One time it was kind of lumpy in the harbor, to the point that even with the stables out I would be flopping all night. There were also some nice patches of Macrocysis kelp in one spot. Towed the stables over there, set the anchor and hardly rolled all night. Powered the stables in next morning, cut the kelp, hauled the anchor, cut the kelp and went fishing well rested.
Salty
2015-04-20 06:02:58
On the above, I knew there was plenty of water under that patch of Macrocysis. I don't recommend driving over growing kelp unless you are sure there isn't a rock under.
Crawfish
2015-04-22 15:29:36
I have a friend who told me back in the 60's they would be fishing off of Channel Islands for Swordfish and at the end of the day they would find a large kelp island and slide the boat right into the center of the mass and drift with it all night. He said it would be blowing 20 knots with white caps everywhere and they would hardly move. In the morning they would work there way out and fish until the weather came up then go find another kelp island and go hide. Sounds like fun. Why does it always seem the good times are now sans.
Reminds me how much I hate rolling around all night.
Salty
2015-04-23 01:18:46
Nice post Crawfish.
nashfam
2015-05-02 04:33:36
Last year I did taglines with 1/8" orange Amsteel and I was very happy with the results. Very visible, very strong