Board of Fish & ATA - Forums Archive

Salty

2008-11-03 02:43:50

Fellow trollers,

If you have an opinion on any of the BOF proposals

http://www.boards.adfg.state.ak.us/fishinfo/meetinfo/2008-2009/propbook/se-and-yak-fin-props2.pdf

pertaining to trolling, and you should, please write them up and send them to ATA. The ATA Board is meeting to consider these proposals on Nov. 5th so it is important to get them your comments now.

ata@gci.net

ATA

130 Seward #205

Juneau, AK 99801

(907)586-9400 phone

(907)586-4473 fax

Some (4) of us longtime trollers ( I was going to list them but they have not had time to go over the typed version yet so I will put these comments out as my own for now) got together in late October and went over the following proposals and submitted these comments for the Alaska Trollers Association Board (ATA), the Sitka Fish & Game Advisory Committee, and Alaska Board of Fisheries (BOF).

Shannon Stone/Scott Crass

Board Support

Box 115526

Juneau, AK 99811-5526

(907)465-4110 phone

(907)465-6094

Please let me know if you agree with any of these comments. I would love to hear what you think if you have a different perspective or some points to add. If you would like to add your name to those supporting these comments or a particular comment on a specific proposal please let me know. ericsarahjordan@gmail.com

Proposal 244: Oppose

The Federal and State Government and SE Commercial salmon fishermen have invested in SE salmon enhancement projects including private non-profit hatchery facilities (PNP) for many years. SE commercial salmon fishermen, including gillnetters, signed onto and have supported the 1994 SE Alaska area enhanced salmon allocation plan. This sharing plan has guided hatchery planning in SE for over a decade and significantly reduced conflict between the gear groups. Gillnetters, in particular, have benefitted for years from allocation decisions to insure they were within their allocation. Now that they have moved ahead of their share they want to take the facilities where they harvest the bulk of the salmon (where seiners and trollers are largely excluded) out of the sharing formula.

Accepting this proposal will re-ignite the SE gear wars of the 80's and early 90's to the detriment of the resource and all users.

We recommend the BOF restate their commitment to the 94 SE area enhanced salmon allocation plan and direct SE area commercial fishery managers, PNP operators, and SE gear groups to work together to bring each group within their allocated share by the 2011 salmon season. If they fail then the BOF should invite proposals for the 2012 meeting for the BOF to adjust fisheries within special harvest areas to bring the gear groups within their allocated percentages.

Proposal 245: Oppose:

Northern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association is the PNP where sharing has worked best. During the chum runs to Deep Inlet all three user groups can be seen working in adjacent areas on some days. Fleets can be seen anchored nearby patiently waiting their turn while other gear groups fish. Cost recovery harvest is limited to a small percentage of the return. This is the model of an effective PNP program.

Because of the unique nature of each PNP site in SE Alaska we realize that trying to achieve the sharing plan allocations at each site would be extremely difficult. That is why it is so important to look at balancing the harvest percentages over the whole region. That is why NSRAA invited the gillnetters into Deep Inlet, well outside their traditional fishing areas, years ago.

With both seiners and trollers below their allocated share now adjustments need to be made for the upcoming salmon seasons. We believe the BOF needs to direct SE area commercial fishery managers, PNP operators, and SE gear groups to work together to bring each group within their allocated share immediately and for certain by the 2011 salmon season.

Proposal 273 Support with the following amendment:

The time ratio for gillnet to seine to troll in Deep Inlet is 1-1-3.

While the seiners and gillnetters have competing proposals to deal with the seiners falling out of their allocated share of hatchery fish in SE, it is the trollers who have been consistently below their allocated share. Several years ago Eric Jordan calculated that trollers earned millions of dollars less than their minimum allocation under the plan during the years from 1994-2004. (Appended) While we have not seen the most recent harvest value figures we understand trollers remain well below their allocation.

The 1-1-3 time ratio in Deep Inlet could work well with cost recovery cycled in after the troll opportunity as needed. Gillnet, seine, and troll days within this formula could be worked out over the seasons and during preseason in response to predictions, allocation percentages, etc. Trollers lost a significant opportunity in 2008 when after cost recovery was completed on a Thursday Deep Inlet was not opened to them on their scheduled day, Saturday. While the gear groups have worked well together within NSRAA to try and elevate troll catch to their allocated share it is clear from all the data presented to you that trollers remain well below their minimum allocation. More needs to be done immediately.

Proposal 220. Support with an amendment to substitute salt for fresh.

All sectors should be required to live within their allocation. If sectors are below their share opportunity for that sector should be increased.

Proposals 222 & 225 Support

Whether by regulation, policy, or appointing a task force the BOF needs to address this problem. This problem is likely to grow with decreased guided harvest under lower treaty shares.

Proposal 286 Support

We really like this well written proposal that addresses a big and growing problem.

Proposal 288 Support

12 Coho a year is plenty for one non-resident.

Proposal 289 Support

This is needed to enforce 288.

Proposal 296 Support amended.

As written 296 jeopardizes the use of downriggers and gurdies to set and retrieve sport lines, lures, and leads. We identify the problem as "The increasing use of power and power assisted reels to retrieve sport hooked fish." We recommend the BOF enact a regulation stating that "The use of power to retrieve sport fish in SE Alaska is prohibited."

307 Support

There is so much abuse of this opportunity by charter operators in our area so that their clients can be assured of going home with fish and shellfish that the Board and enforcement need to act.

Proposal 294, 301, 302, 305, 306, 308, 309, 310, 311. Support

Appendum:

Comments to BOF in 2006 on Enhanced Salmon sharing effectiveness by Eric Jordan, troller.

What the Board of Fisheries might consider taking a look at is how the existing enhanced salmon allocation management plan, 5AAC 33.364, is working. I happen to think it is working fairly well even though, as you can see from the attached graphs, trollers are behind in their allocated share. I say fairly well because the language does not refer to an overall evaluation of total value over time between the gear groups which I believe is important in considering long term enhancement sharing and regulatory planning.

So, I have taken the Joint Regional Planning Team (JRPT) figures and prepared the attached graph for you. You won't get this directly from the JRPT because the negotiated agreement between the gear groups which led to regulation 5AAC 33.364 contains the following language: "The evaluation of allocation percentages shall be based on five year increments, beginning with 1985." While I support the regulation I think it is good to understand how things have added up over time.

(The graphs did not reproduce well here. If you would like them I can e-mail them to you.)

The figures show that since 1994 trollers have harvested $40,688,486 of enhanced salmon thereby falling $15,605,143 short of the minimum of $56,293,630 (27%) of their allocated share of the value of SE enhanced salmon ($208,494,925) during that time period. Gillnetters are almost exactly in the middle of their allocated range (24-29%) @ 26.4% ($55,001,505) or $4,962,723 over their minimum allocated share, $50,038,782, since 1994. Seiners have harvested $112,804,934 worth of enhanced salmon since 1994 or $21,067,166.77 more than the minimum $91,737,767.00 they could expect under the Southeast Alaska Area Enhanced Salmon Allocation Management Plan.

What these graphs show me is that trollers are still well below their rolling five year allocation but moving into their allocation in 2003 and 2004. I suspect 2005 will be similar to 2003 and 2004. Trollers are not proposing regulatory change to improve their situation at the expense of others.

These graphs show that gillnetters are above their allocated range both in recent years and in the five year rolling average. If you add the perspective of the ten year harvest values this is the last group that should be proposing re-allocation at other group's expense.

Seiners are within their allocation for the rolling five year average but have fallen below their allocation for the last three years. While this situation does not mandate action at this board meeting, especially considering how far ahead seiners are over the last 10 years, it does merit consideration for the future and the Board of Fisheries should certainly hesitate before taking any action to restrict seiners in favor of gillnetters.

I recommend the Board of Fisheries consider both the recent figures and a historical perspective in making decisions on the various proposals which will affect enhanced salmon allocations in SE Alaska. The allocation guidelines and JRPT process has served the Board process very well since it was agreed to. It has prevented the kind of gear war allocation battles which raged at Board meetings in the early 80's.

ata

2008-11-12 02:07:56

Hello out there...

The ATA Board met last week and took positions on proposals. I haven't had a chance to audit my notes, so I'm not going to share them yet. However, it is really important that you start thinking about your written - and hopefully oral - testimony for the Board of Fisheries, which begins Feb. 17th in Sitka. This meeting will be finfish - there is another meeting in January, in Petersburg, for shellfish, so please don't confuse the two. Certainly plan to get involved in both if they are appropriate to your business plan. You can search out information on both meetings at the links above.

Written testimony can be as long as you want. Oral testimony should be 3 minutes or less. For many people, 3 minutes is two and a half pages - size 12 font - double spaced. Be sure to make it sound like you talk - less likely to stumble that way. Read it over and over to get the timing right and become more comfortable. I realize you'd rather [insert your least favorite thing here] than speak in public, but three minutes can go pretty fast.=)

Just wanted to encourage you to drop me an email if you're working on proposals and either want to know ATA's position, or need some help figuring out where to search out information. I'll be leaving town Saturday for DC and EXPO, but will return before Thanksgiving and should be in town most of December. Email will be best point of contact, but if you call the office, just leave a message if you don't get me - with a best time call back- the answering service is great about getting messages to me at least twice a day. Finding a board member to talk to is another option - see names below.

So for now... think Board of Fish - read the proposal book and start penning those notes. Don't over think it - no one on the Board of Fish is more the expert on trolling than each of you. Make your point, less can be more, it's just very important that you comment, and, if possible, show up.

If you haven't been getting the ATA newsletter, please give me a call so I can make sure we have your proper mailing address. We will have more Board of Fish info for the fleet in upcoming mailings.

More on the particulars as we get closer to the date.

Over and Out...

Dale, ATA

**********************

ATA Board 2009

President

Dave Otte

Sarah E, Ketchikan

Vice President

Bob Fredrickson

New Day, Lower 48

Secretary

Joel Kawahara

Karolee, Lower 48

Treasurer

Jeff Longridge

Saami, Sitka

Ken McGee

Northstar, Juneau

Keith Brady

Ilona B, Southern Rural

John Murray

Loran, Sitka

Mark Roberts

Cape Cross, Petersburg

Carter Hughes

Radio, Northern Rural

Dan Doak

Kodiak, Wrangell

Dick HofMann

Standy, At Large

Matt Donohoe

Helen A, At Large

Ken Ash

Jennison, Handtroll

Staff

Dale Kelley, Executive Director

ata@gci.net 586-9400 ph / 586-4473 fax

Treaty Team

Howard Pendell, Rosa Lee

Dennis Longstreth,Shearwater

Dale Kelley, ATA

ata

2008-12-25 21:42:24

Merry Christmas y'all...

When you've come up for air after all the hussle and bussle and holiday food-fests, attached to this posting is a little reminder for your list of 'must do's' right after the New Year.

Peace and Joy!

Dale, ATA

P.S. If you also fish shellfish, you have two Board of Fish comment deadlines... shellfish is January 9 / finfish is February 3. The shellfish meeting is in Petersburg, Jan. 21-27. Finfish is Feb. 17-26 in Sitka.

Bigwave jim

2008-12-26 04:25:10

what in the world are you trying to do with the attached propaganda?

Ocean Gold

2008-12-26 16:51:59

The letter Jim is referring to is telling all commercial fisherman that they better start paying attention to what is going on! The days of commercial fleet fish fights are over this is a matter of being able to fish on OUR own fish that we have paid for, the hatchery fish. We need people at the January Bof and in Feb. regardless of where you are having to travel from. Need a place to stay call us Me or Kathy or Dale or Julianne or Chris or Seas we can help find rooms or places to stay. The Board seems to be taking votes these days NOT what is best for the resource. If you think this is a joke and your voice never gets heard , your wrong!! When so many proposals went down in Cordova we were shocked at the Departments response and the anti commercial direction they headed the board in. We all need to be on the same page, we may have a short reprieve with the economy, but don't kid yourself this fight is going to push the commercial fisherman into a box or out. If you want to continue to fish get involved learn whats going on, these fish are not endless as many might think . Remember King Salmon and Coho Salmon are a designated sport/gamefish they are working on Halibut. Physical help is very much needed, sending a couple representitives is not going to fly anymore we need bodys.

Salty

2008-12-26 18:45:41

Ed,

Why don't you post some of the specifics that went down in Cordova? We are working on some of the positions here but it doesn't help when some trollers are telling people that they don't think enhanced salmon management can be adjusted so trollers can get within their range. I know you and Kathy and some others are with us but I am running into both a lot of apathy and ignorance. Those of you reading these posts are making the effort to learn and understand what is happening to your business. Get your partners and friends involved. As important as maintaining your engine, your hull, and understanding which hook to put on which spoon is maintaining your right to opportunity and your allocated harvest share.

Here are some facts again off of the top of my head. I would love someone else to go look at the exact figures and post them here. Trollers are allocated between 27-32% of the SE enhanced salmon commercial harvest value. SE enhanced salmon are worth about 20 million per year on an average. So our share is about 6 million per year. We have been harvesting about 20% of the 20 million. So we have been losing between 2-4 million of our harvest value share over the last 14 years since the plan has been passed. It comes to between 25 and 41 million dollars of lost harvest value by trollers. This is not fish that escaped commercial harvest. This is our share of what was harvested. The seiners are right at the top of their allocation over the 14 years @ 49%. Gillnetters are several million dollars ahead of the top end of their range @29%. In 2008 the best estimate is that we harvested about 16% of the commercial enhanced salmon harvest value.

The Regional Plan Team of the gear group representatives have adopted a consensus plan (posted on this site) for the upcoming Board of Fisheries meeting restating their support for the allocation plan and recommending long term solutions for trollers to get better opportunity to harvest coho and chinook. It is basically the same plan that has left trollers $41 million dollars short over the last 14 years. It also aggressively recommends specific changes to get the seiners, who have fallen short the last few years, back within their allocated share in 2009.

Individual gillnetters have advised me that they don't support the Industry consensus and think the allocation formula should be readjusted to reflect current harvest patterns thereby permanently reducing the troll allocation.

Want to know what you can do about this? Want to know what our Chum Trollers Association specifically recommends? Ask us! (907) 738-chum.

Ocean Gold

2008-12-26 21:07:08

I can't post, but you may call 586-6652 seafa anytime, We did have one troller testify up at the Cordova meeting, one and only one. The other thing that is fastly becoming a issue is the hand troll/charter permits, the abuse is going to only get worse, I know of six NEW dual permit holders that will be fishing this year with there rodeo clients they found with limits on halibut and king salmon the clients can take unlimited amounts of other salmon home as crewmembers and when they take home the entire catch no fish tickets are required to be filled out. Until All the SPORT loopholes are closed it will be a constant battle over fish. Everyone has to realize as residents of Ak you are personal use and subsistance fishing a non-resident is a sport fisherman most every proposal that failed was directed toward the sport fisherman/charter. Dale is right about the comments being made, they have a pretty good lawyer that may put a end to the hatchery king and cohos in Southeast by not allowing the commercial fleet access to our fish in the terminal areas they are more valuable to the sport fleet. I hope we can have a Better New Year.

yak2you2

2008-12-26 22:39:58

Anybody seen what a barrel of Alaskan crude is going for these days? My guess is that Alaska is also going to find the federal well a lot drier than it ever has been before too. Very shortly this state is going to be so far in the red, it won't even be able to sustain basic life support. I think the angle of attack has to be to ask the state officials who's really going to pay to keep the hatcheries running? It won't be the charter fleet.

To me though, as I've already said, the real problem with the charter fleet is, their multiplying like rabbits. The absolute best defense against the charter fleet is to make them fight amongst themselves. Why don't they realize that having unlimited growth in their industry will eventually put all of us, including them, out of business? You would think that the natural greed that comes with their industry would make the older, established charter fleet want to keep out new entrants, so they wouldn't have to give them a share of the pie.

I, and I think a lot of them, would be shocked if we saw a projected cause and effects forecast using data based off of the charted industry's current growth rate. If you could show the current charter operators a simple color graph that indicates that there won't be enough fish, or clients in 3 years time to sustain their businesses, you might find yourself with some new, and powerful, allies.

The problem will never be fixed, until you go back to about 1992 numbers of charter boats, and install a limited entry system based on points. it's the only way to manage their harvest levels. You can't win a stand up fight with these people. a lot of these lodge owners are multi-millionaire, doctor lawyer types, they will simply lawsuit us out of existence the way the logging industry got snuffed out.

Time to switch tactics, and try to scare some of them into joining our team, in my humble opinion.

Ocean Harvester

2008-12-26 23:34:32

I really think this economy is going to snuff more than a few of them out. I have talked to a few and bookings are in the tank this year. With somewhat poor fishing by Alaska standards and the dificulty in catching Halibut in the Sitka area last year and the economy they are taking a hit and expect some to go out of business. Hopefully some thinning out will occur. I really think Regs need to be changed to limit C&R of Kings. A reg that stops fishing for Salmon once the daily limit is retained would be a good way to stop the rampent Catch and Release. A 3 fish daily limit on coho would be another step.

ata

2008-12-27 04:36:31

Dear BigWaveJim, et al...

Oh come on... my 'propaganda' piece was so tongue in cheek that I may have done some damage. It's merely meant as a reminder to grab a Board of Fish proposal book and comment on those issues most dear to YOUR business. Whichever proposals are viewed important, and whatever each person writes about, is totally up to them. That's the beauty of Alaska's regulatory process!

The most important thing is that fishermen get involved and talk to other people about the issues. Having been involved in the Board of Fish process for about 25 years, it seems to me that the best solutions have always come from competing interests who sat down and worked towards common ground. I strongly encourage that.

Apologies if my action alert caused any consternation here, or as it lands in troller's mailboxes. Sometimes it gets boring writing (and reading) bone dry calls to action. I'd HOPED to ilicit a few Christmas grins with the absurdity of it all, while pointing you in the direction of a few real life proposals.

Now, let's get to work!

Dale, ATA

two meter troll

2008-12-27 20:30:36

I hope this does not come off as a rant nor do i want to offend any one.

Folks I personally think you should look to the south a little bit.

here in oregon we are on the back side of some of this and i can tell you truly; that you need to get every troller you can drag into these meeting in the door and talking.

we down here screwed up and stayed factioned; our fishery is almost gone. the sport, trawl and tribal folks have almost all the fish and we Trollers come in dead last. from my POV the why of it is that we didn't pull together and we didn't put our money and support into propaganda. we did not look to see who else was interested in our demise. instead we kept to ourselves each as a separate entity .

you need to advertise Troll caught fish.

you need to lobby.

you need to band together.

you need to research your opponents lives and careers.

you need to find a speaker that can travel to washington and present real data to folks who only hear those folks who sit a desk.

you need to keep your logs and gather data with times and dates.

Everyone wives kids teens ETC. need to be in the meetings with the beurocrats.

you need to gather information from the whole batch of fisheries, home land defence and the world fisheries. because part of this fight has nothing to do with method;and everything to do with boats under 500 tons.

you need to have folks who can fight in arenas other than fishing; this fight is in all of the maritime world.

you need to stop arguing in front of your opponents and present a unified face, nothing is going to be best for all: every thing has to be a compromise.

you need to join up with other groups in other states and on other coasts.

you need to find folks willing to give you money to support this sort of stuff.

At the same time you need to have your communities tight and talking.

you need to make propaganda and get it out to the public, as much of the public as you can, in as many areas as you can.

you need to follow the money that supports the cutting your allocations not just to the obvious first stop but to the end of the trail.

you need to remember that the folks against our way of life have used divide and conquer on us before and it worked.

for the the lower three this started in the 70's and no one would listen on the pacific side. the atlantic listened and did what it had to do to bring the fisheries back. now the grand banks are producing again, lobster and all the rest are working pretty stable markets.

take a good look at your salmon troller.

what can this boat do? it can haul cargo, feed you, feed a town, it can tow, it can go anyplace that has enough water, it can traverse seas, you can live on it, these boats have ranges of hundreds of miles. I point this out to remind you of what others see and fear. not just in business but in the government halls.

if you read around you will find proposals for removing the small boat fleets. you will see proposals for making every boat carry things to make us trackable. you will find proposals to make daily customs inspections mandatory for all of our boats.

the folks making these proposals are also funding fisheries research and those researchers that say what they want presented to the governments and public.

this fight is not about salmon. salmon is just the point of the attack that affects you personally. to be effective in the fight for trolling we need to be aware of the rest of the fight and see why this or that polititon is against us.

I would suspect the reasions will be educational

I don't have my wifes gift of words or spelling but i do have a brain and time to look at things. this is what i see.

Ocean Gold

2008-12-27 21:11:04

two meter, You hitter on the nose. Being from the San Jauns we saw the changes the only thing different here is the hatcheries are ours and they need to be protected or we are done. Not only as trollers, but as fisherman.

yak2you2

2008-12-28 02:28:47

This last summer was a real eye opener for me. The halibut charter fleet went over their cap, NMFS with all the power of the federal government vested in it's biologists said, "hey, this is a problem," and cut them down to a 1 halibut per person limit. What happened? They sued, and they won. All the statistics, all the prior planning of the all different user groups who hashed out a fair and equitable quota, flushed right down the toilet by one judge, and a couple of high dollar lawyers. They were allowed to fish for two halibut per person all summer long, fish that were stolen directly from the longliners share that they had to buy by the pound.

There is something inherently wrong with the way our legal system works in this country. If you have enough money, and time on your hands, you can get away with just about anything.

Sure, the feds are trying to close the loophole, but you have to believe their attorneys will find another one.

The only way to stop the flooding is to shut off the water. There has to be a limit to the number of guided sport boats, period. Unfortunately, it seems to me that the only way to make that happen is to make them believe it, so they fight with us rather than against us.

ask every charter guy you know, when does it end? Let's say they win the rights to every single halibut, coho, and king salmon there is, and end commercial fishing all together, what then? What are all the now ex-commercial guys with bank payments going to do? Go get a charter license, and join them, thats what.

When 600 people come to your town to go sport fishing, and theres 900 boats, what then?

I blame the government for not having the courage to take the issue to task and setting a limited number of charter operators back when commercial Halibut went IFQ, before a whole army of new boats that will now protest, got into the business. It's a real mess, to me the only way to fix it, is to back up and do what should have been done in the first place.

If were going to join hands and make a fight out of it, that seems to me like the direction we have to go, anything else would be closing the barn doors after the horses are gone.

Getting it written in stone that such and such a share of the hatchery fish will be yours, or any other fish for that matter, won't be worth the rock it's carved into if the judicial system we all put our faith into is just going to flush whatever is written at the whim of the highest bidder anyway.

The charter industry has to made to understand that the resource is not endless, nor is the numbers of clients, or parking stalls for that matter.

Salty

2008-12-28 04:53:52

While I agree with all of you that are concerned with the growth of the guided sport fish fleet in SE Alaska and their harvest rates they are not the biggest problem for the troll fleet this Board of Fisheries cycle. And I can say something about this as I have authored proposals, including some this cycle, that help manage the charter fleet. But, there are no serious proposals by the charter fleet this cycle to take a significant amount of troll salmon away from trollers.

But, we are over $2,000,000.00 short of our enhanced salmon allocation per year. Gillnetters are maneuvering to make that shortage permanent. This problem should be the highest priority for trollers this board of fisheries cycle.

I agree with all the posts here alluding to problems bigger for trollers than the share of enhanced salmon between the commercial gear groups in SE Alaska. Nevertheless part of the reason I have very successful at several ventures in my life, most importantly fishing, coaching, and husbanding, (probably in that order even though the reverse was my priority) is that I have learned to identify and then focus on the problem at hand. The biggest problem for trollers at this Board of Fisheries meeting is maintaining the allocation formula and recapturing our share of the harvest value. We need to focus on what we do about this problem.

Nothing else on the table is worth near as much either financially or in preserving troll opportunity.

Actually, our biggest problem may be the makeup and political dynamics of the present Board of Fisheries. But, we can't do anything about that between now and January.

salmontroll

2008-12-28 07:05:08

I agree that equitable distribution to the troll catch in the hatchery fisheries is important, but I'm not convinced it is the most important priority for salmon trollers. I think the current economy and fuel prices, are my priorities. As far as managing the sport and charter industry, all I know is I've witnessed "sports" fisherman selling (?) their catch over the phone, hundreds of coolers full of fillets being carted up the docks, and thousands of boxs of fish being checked in by "tourists" at Alaska Airlines? I'm really not convinced that there's an accurate accounting.

two meter troll

2008-12-28 07:41:59

I agree with all the posts here alluding to problems bigger for trollers than the share of enhanced salmon between the commercial gear groups in SE Alaska. Nevertheless part of the reason I have very successful at several ventures in my life, most importantly fishing, coaching, and husbanding, (probably in that order even though the reverse was my priority) is that I have learned to identify and then focus on the problem at hand. The biggest problem for trollers at this Board of Fisheries meeting is maintaining the allocation formula and recapturing our share of the harvest value. We need to focus on what we do about this problem.

Just so.

in fishing (as the action), coaching and husbanding; you have a notion of the bigger picture while concentrating on the part at hand.

the part at hand is currently the allocation but the bigger picture is hidden if you do not actively look for it. having someone trusted to look at the bigger issues behind the point you must address now and getting a thumbnail of the high points can give you insight to a path that can take you through safely.

to use a metaphor: we all navigate with our eyes and a compass; but we use a radar ,depth sounder and chart to give us an idea of what we cannot directly observe. its important to remember that a bigger picture of the situation allows us to plot a course in general and then when we get to the specific place we can modify our actions.

it is totally right to focus on the current difficulties they are at this time, most important. it is also important to get at least some folks looking at the big chart and filling in the blanks.

yak2you2

2008-12-28 18:28:09

I am in total support of the troll fleet getting it's fair share of the hatchery fish, and I'm more than willing to help in any way that I can. However, If you want to understand why It's not top priority for some of us, all you have to do is take a look at a chart. Up here on the northern end we catch hatchery fish sometimes, but their all incidental, we have no hatchery, or directed fishery. Whatever happens at this B.O.F. meeting with regard to hatchery allocation will have almost zero affect on any of us who don't participate in the directed fisheries. So, when people jump on here and say, "why should I support proposal 321, which transfers some of the hatchery allocation over to the winter fishery, I don't fish it?" they should recognize that they are leaving about a third of their potential supporters out in the cold. There is no other way to say it,"if you want support, give some."

For now, I am much more concerned about the bigger picture items. The economy is going to train wreck our prices for this next year. No one is realistically doing anything about the drag fishery by-catch that last year recklessly destroyed so much salmon of all types, it makes the fish we're squabbling about seem like mere crumbs. The never ending nibbles being taken out of our summer quota to try to stem the declines of the cause and affect mismanagement of the down south and Canadian King salmon fisheries. the limitless blossoming of the sport caught fisheries that seem to basically be untouchables.

These are the types of common issues that affect ALL trollers, and to me, they are the types of issues that seem like the potentially career ending ones. I recognize that these issues aren't before the board this cycle, but some of them should be. Others will only be resolved by doing what our opponents do, which is sue to get what we want. Why aren't we suing NMFS over the drag by-catch? or counter suing to force the sport fishery to stay within it's cap? As goofy as this may sound, I guess I kind of look at it like this, Why bother with board of fishery decisions if the judges are going to do all the legislating of the fisheries from the benches from now on, isn't that where the real fight is going to be?

Salty

2008-12-28 19:02:14

Great comments. I really liked all of them about seeing the bigger picture. Which makes me chuckle as I have often been teased for thinking "beyond the horizon". As an example I offer this story. I was serving on a community committee helping to select a new superintendent of schools in Sitka about 15 years ago. We were all asked to submit one question which a couple of the committee members would prioritize and ask the three finalists. The question I submitted, which was not selected to be asked was: "Where do you want to be buried?"

While we did not ask the question to the candidates the question provoked a great deal of discussion within the committee and I was asked to explain why I thought that was an important and appropriate question. I pointed out that one of the big problems we have in Alaska, especially rural Alaska, is finding people who will become committed to and integrated fully into our community. Asking people to share their thoughts about where they want to be buried often reveals their thinking about the importance of place in their lives. For those of us who have chosen to live in rural Alaska place is if not the most important consideration then one of the most deciding factors. It seemed to me like an appropriate question for a person we were trusting to lead the schooling of our children for the next few years.

The man we hired heard about this unasked question and initiated a discussion with me about it a couple of years later. He told me he planned to be buried in Sitka and lives here now with several grandchildren. I still get comments about this question from time to time, usually in social settings.

So, while I am trying to communicate to the the readers of this forum about my perspective on the importance of focusing for the next two months on specific BOF proposals, don't think I don't have an eye on the bigger picture. For example: How many of our readers will be back in DC for the Inauguration meeting with our new Senator and other new decision makers? I will be there. If you will be there lets get together.

I am going to start initiating comments on specific BOF proposals now. I think I will start with 315 since I authored it and it can be worth a lot to Yakutat.

yak2you2

2008-12-28 19:16:25

The list of proposals i have shows 315 as a proposal pertaining to dolly Varden fishing in Ketchikan Cr.?

yak2you2

2008-12-28 19:18:49

Let's try out jon's new chatroom.

Salty

2008-12-28 19:50:33

I meant proposal 321.

Ocean Gold

2008-12-30 19:05:46

Here is the one for you to ponder the charters told us " they want there fair and equitable share of the hatchery kings and coho" now in my mind that is "0" we may end up at least 20% that the commercail troll fleet has to give up.

John Murray

2009-01-02 07:00:34

Thanks for the end of year rant yak by yak,many of us share your frustration.But in a month and one half Bof will meet in Sitka. There are a number of proposals which will keep you fishing and give the troll fleet more oppourtunity.Others to contain and help make the charters fish substainably.Consider coming to Sitka for BOF there's lots to learn and do.Then in March lets go get some kings to pay the courthouse bill.

ata

2009-01-09 00:12:16

Yet another friendly reminder....

How's your Board of Fisheries comments and testimony coming along?

It's really important that you start thinking about your written - and, hopefully, oral - testimony for the Board of Fisheries. Encourage your family, friends, and associates! Strength in numbers...

The Board of Fish shellfish meeting is set for later this month - January 21, in Petersburg. Comments are coming RIGHT UP - like, TOMORROW (Jan 9) for that meeting!

The Board of Fish finfish meeting begins February 17th at Harrigan Hall in Sitka. Comments are due Feb.3, and, yes, they mean BY 5pm.

Other February Meeting Events:

** The ATA Board will be meeting Feb. 15-17 at Harrigan Hall in Sitka - ATA members and invited guests welcome!

** ATA will host a port meeting for all trollers - probably the 16th.

** Plus, look for the trollers break out room that we'll have set up at Harrigan Hall starting the 17th. All trollers welcome. There will be people and equipment to help you with last minute testimony work, or a chair if you need to take a break away from the main meeting.

** ATA 18th Annual Raffle: Friday night, Feb. 20, at the Westmark Shee Atika

Plan to get involved in both Board of Fisheries meetings if they are appropriate to your business plan. You can search out information on both at the links below. ATA is focused on the February finfish meeting.

TESTIMONY

Written testimony can be as long as you want. Oral testimony should be 3 minutes or less. For many people, 3 minutes is two and a half pages - size 12 font - double spaced. Be sure to make it sound like you talk - less likely to stumble that way. Read it over and over to get the timing right and become more comfortable. I realize you'd rather [insert your least favorite thing here] than speak in public, but three minutes can go pretty fast.=)

I encourage you to drop me an email if you're working on finfish proposals and either want to know ATA's position, or need some help figuring out where to search out information.

Warning: I'll be leaving town Sunday for a treaty meeting in Vancouver, BC. There is also a treaty meeting in Portland the week before the February Board of Fish meeting. Email will be best point of contact for me during these meetings, but I'm usually not on it much more than a couple times a day when on the road. Cell phone means big roaming fees when in Canada, so I won't return many calls, either. I will return to the office on January 20th. If you call the office, just leave a message if you don't get me - with a best time call back- the answering service is great about getting messages to me a couple times a day - please, just don't tell them it's an 'emergency', unless it really is!

Finding a board member to talk to is another option, and also very helpful if you would like the ATA Board to consider a compromise position - see names below.

So ... think Board of Fish - read the finfish proposal book and start penning those notes. Don't over think it - no one on the Board of Fish is more the expert on trolling than each of you. Make your point - less can be more - it's just very important that you comment, and, if possible, show up and say it in person, too!

If you haven't been getting the ATA newsletter, give me a call so I can make sure we have your proper mailing address. We will have a bit more Board of Fish info for the fleet in upcoming mailings.

Finally, be on the lookout for the ATA webpage. Had hoped to launch this week, but... anyway, check the site once in awhile and hopefully you'll see it up very soon: http://www.aktrollers.org Comments, suggestions, and constructive criticism always welcome - it's going to be a work in progress, particularly at the start.

Over and Out...

Dale, ATA

********************

BOARD OF FISH

Southeast/Yakutat Shellfish - January 21-27 Petersburg COMMENTS DUE: 5pm January 9

Proposal Book: http://www.boards.adfg.state.ak.us/fish ... props2.pdf

Southeast/Yakutat Finfish February 17-26 Sitka COMMENTS DUE: 5pm February 3

Proposal Book: http://www.boards.adfg.state.ak.us/fish ... props2.pdf

Send comments by mail or fax to:

Shannon Stone/Scott Crass

Board Support

Box 115526

Juneau, AK 99811-5526

(907)465-4110 phone

(907)465-6094

Please also sent ATA a copy:

ata@gci.net

Alaska Trollers Association

130 Seward #205

Juneau, AK 99801

(907)586-9400 phone

(907)586-4473 fax

*******************

2009 ATA Board of Directors

President

Dave Otte

Sarah E, Ketchikan

Vice President

Bob Fredrickson

New Day, Lower 48

Secretary

Joel Kawahara

Karolee, Lower 48

Treasurer

Jeff Longridge

Saami, Sitka

Ken McGee

Northstar, Juneau

Keith Brady

Ilona B, Southern Rural

John Murray

Loran, Sitka

Mark Roberts

Cape Cross, Petersburg

Carter Hughes

Radio, Northern Rural

Dan Doak

Kodiak, Wrangell

Dick HofMann

Standy, At Large

Matt Donohoe

Helen A, At Large

Ken Ash

Jennison, Handtroll