Noobie Intro and More

BigBug

2009-10-19 21:12:08

Hello everyone!



Hmmm, where to start...



Well, this is a great little forum, thanks to whomever it is running it.



I am a nob in more ways than just a nob joining the forum. I am also a noob to trolling, noob to AK, and did I mention noob to trolling. So new in fact, all I can say about Alaska is that I saw the Anchorage airport polar bear twice. Once headed to Okinawa and once returning back to the world a year later.



I got the bug in my bonnet to start trolling compliments of a buddy I was stationed with over twenty years ago. You might say life got in the way but now I think I can pick up a boat and a permit by mid 2010. All I got to do is get the farm sold...



Speaking of the farm, Someone posted something about getting paid, how to get paid and pricing etc... and they mentioned that even farmers have unions on their behalf. Wow, that was a hot air statement. Nothing I ever heard of. I raise cattle, pork and sometimes grains and get paid the buyers auction price, most of the time just a shade below what I have got into the critter :roll: . This does bring up another point on getting paid a fair price for your product be it a pig or a king. Anyone ever tried contracting their salmon in advance? Grain farmers do it all of the time. Before the season we sit down with a buyer and arrange a contract price, usually for a portion of the crop that will cover your operating loan for the year. You save back x amount of product to sell at market price once the contract is filled. Works great especially in years where the price shoots up beyond what your contract portion sold for. Experts, would this work for salmon?



Back to trolling. I think we have established that I have to learn everything from the ground up. I can fix just about anything on a boat due to some moonlighting to make ends meet a few years back. I can operate most anything up to 40 feet in open water or tight spaces due to the above. I did spend a week blue water trolling in Japan so I get the basics. I figure I am sharp enough to keep the holes out of the bottom and the gear in the drink, after that maybe I will figure it out and the again maybe not. I have a habit of throwing everything I have got into something and letting hard work and luck determine the outcome. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose...



Well, enough about me, let's talk trolling!



Ted

Salty

2009-10-20 17:29:02

Bigbug,

Lots of good information here. I recommend you see if someone on this site would be interested in having you go with them crewing for couple of trips this coming summer and you could get a good idea of what you might be getting into before you take the plunge. Kind of like dipping your toe to check the water before diving in.

BigBug

2009-10-21 01:06:05

Salty, Thanks for the advice, all good I am sure. I will probably stick to my plan though. I figure that no one knew how to troll until they learned how although, I have read a few stories that make me think that there are a few that are genetically predisposed from birth.



To shorten my learning curve I plan to hire the best deckhand I can find and then pay him/her 5% above going rate. Of course there is the issue of "if there is someone to hire, how come they are not hired on somewhere?" I guess I can look to some of the experts here for guidance on whom might be available...

tacorajim

2009-10-21 01:32:57

Uhmmm.

You can't just make it known you'll throw money around, and expect to end up with a good boat puller, (deckhand). An extra 5%? Forget that.



I've been paying 15-25% of gross fish tickets the past three years because of a heart condition that keeps me in the wheelhouse. And I know what I'm doing.



Slow down, Cap. Listen to the 'old salts'.

BigBug

2009-10-21 02:22:06

Uhmmm.

You can't just make it known you'll throw money around, and expect to end up with a good boat puller, (deckhand). An extra 5%? Forget that.



I've been paying 15-25% of gross fish tickets the past three years because of a heart condition that keeps me in the wheelhouse. And I know what I'm doing.



Slow down, Cap. Listen to the 'old salts'.


LOL There is no slowing down. Like you, little heart condition thing here (3 MI's, CABG 4X). The first 2 in 01 and 1 plus the quad bypass in 03 has somewhat reduced the work capacity. Up until last year I was still fighting wildfires and running EMT calls so I can still do a bit here and there. I got me one of them there expiration dates kind of like a gallon of milk...



What I cannot do is spend time crewing when that time can be spent on my own rig. Don't take that as not listening to the old timers rather, creatively circumventing a step... lol :) I most certianly welcome any advice for those that have been there done that.

Salty

2009-10-21 17:20:25

I hear you loud and clear. I didn't learn much about trolling from my few short trips after college with others. Learned a lot growing up with my father and a lot from other trollers and my crew over the years.

Good luck with the learning curve. Remember that the hooks face the inside curve of the spoon and that you put iron hooks on brite spoons. Have fun.

hopeless chuck

2009-10-21 21:46:48

I agree with the others that a few weeks or even just one good trip could not only kick start you on the complexities of catching salmon but it could save your life. Catching salmon is just the dreamy part of trolling, dealing with mother nature (and believe me she is a woman) and her moods can be a nightmare and is what can bite you when you least expect it. Learning local knowledge of the waters you intend to fish and asking questions of the old timers can save you time, energy, money and possibly save your life. You will never find a group of folks more helpful and more talkative than a salmon troller. Oh yeah rule of thumb, "don't piss into the wind" and good luck on your new adventures into the only job in the world that is not a job, Hopeless Chuck.

f/v henrietta w

2009-10-22 13:11:27

BigBug -



Imagine ripping a salty, grizzled, pipe-smoking, diesel and fishgut smelling, raingear wearing, norwegian-accented fisherman off the deck of an old wood halibut schooner, and dumping him in the middle of a field of sugarbeets in North Dakota and telling him to farm.



Dumping a farmer in the middle of the ocean on a troller telling him to make a successful living fishing would be no different, although the ocean might have a shorter temper than a crop field. They are two very different and very specialized skill sets.



I wish you the best of luck, and hope your efforts are rewarded. Remember to go slowly and that there is no substitute for experience. Western civilization has grown in leaps and bounds because folks like you are willing to take risks and try completely new things and work hard until they can make it, but it must equally be said that every fishing town has a memorial full of the names of good, experienced fishermen whose luck ran out.



Be safe, and enjoy yourself.

BigBug

2009-10-23 08:16:26

F/V H.....



LOL WELL SAID! I even worked some cattle in ND way back for a friend.



OK guys, this is kinda going in the wrong direction --> my fault. Let me elaborate (more of my bio).

The first few years out of the corps I worked as a commercial diver, mostly welding and salvage in the great lakes and a couple of the bigger rivers. I have operated many a boat in all kinds of nasty weather/water and even managed to get "lost at sea" in lake Michigan for about 6 hours in November wearing only a 1/4 inch wetsuit (never ever let the boss convince you to ride the welding barge while he runs back to shore for fuel, in weather, at 2 am... Sometimes they sink.). First time I was ever scared on the water. That was long ago but I am sure the water has not changed much? With that and my more current little bit of time on the PS I figure I am safe enough to get started. I do have a healthy respect for the ole' bag in charge of the weather.



What I don't know how to do is find salmon, fish for salmon. That is why I am here and I hope to at least have a handle on the basics before I buy.



I have always lived by the mantra that there is not anything that I cannot do. It is just a matter of aquiring the skill and taking a chance. With that, you have to be ready to accept great outcomes as well as really bad outcomes. Once I decided to become a programmer back when the internet was all that and a cup of coffee... the market crashed within 6 months of graduation. That was 12 grand and 2 years down the drain. I still write some code here and there so it was not a total loss. I should figure out if I ever broke even. I have been into hobby robotics for a long time and a company saw one of my designs through a friend. They contracted me to design an educational robot for them and it went ok until this latest market crash... see a pattern here? I have another bot coming out on the market early 2010 and the fingers are crossed that the world does not end this time...



Anyhow, what I am getting at is that although I chase cows, it is not what defines me any more than chasing salmon defines most of you.



For the record, I do think crewing for someone else for a couple of openers is a he!! of a good idea. Unfortunately I am too tied down until I get things sold off and settled.



Good fishin' guys.

hopeless chuck

2009-10-24 00:43:08

Well that's different. My entry into salmon trolling was a little backwards from yours. Got out of the Corp in 74, worked on a troller in S.E. AK, in 75, trolled WA. Or. and Ca. in 76 and was running my own boat in 77. Got out of the fishing industry in 95 and now watch things grow in the wife's farm (and in our spare time we fight for our local salmon spawning grounds and Marine mammals). You'll take to it like a fish in water, Hopeless Chuck.

gumpucky

2009-10-24 01:40:05

With all these crash patterns you might want to look into fish farming.

tacorajim

2009-10-24 02:22:05

Poker?



I'll see your horses and cattle, grain futures, robots and lake history, Corps and programming backgrounds, health issues and ego.



And raise that with decades of memories to make you laugh and cry like a baby. Oh yeah, plus a hundred and fifty thousand cash. You'll need it for a turnkey boat and permit.



What you got?

ashadu

2009-11-08 03:46:10

Bigbug, get the farm sold, then take a trip or two with someone. I never take people other than deckhands because timing (luck) is so pecarious that anything can ruin a money making opprotunity. however several years ago I had a friend that desperatly wanted to change his life and go salmon trolling. so I took him. after three days he offered to pay me to take him in. said he had never seen anything so brutal in his life workwise and if thats what it took, it wasnt for him. I took him in ,no charge of course, and he thanked me many times. He did scratch his itch by buying a small inshore sport boat and spent many joyful days on the ocean not worrying about the bottom line. The romance of trolling is offset by this reality. its nothing more than a coal mine, machinery and manpower allow you to push more hook hours through productive zones. 10 hours one man, good. two men 14 hours,standard. and a nightslipper captain who never goes on deck and never touches a fish better have one hell of a lot of experience to carry his wieght. But everyone deserves a chance at thier dream and I hope that you get a chance to try this one when the time is right. good luck ashadu

birdfeeder1

2009-11-09 06:59:57

If you really want it and really do love trolling than trolling itself will be worth the time. Don't be discouraged by negative comment every small business owner in america is chancen it some just more than owners.

Journey

2009-11-09 18:14:00

Getting into trolling without any experience is far from impossible, but don't count on a deckhand to teach you the ropes, err, lines. Primarily, you may not make enough to keep one around (Twenty percent of nothing is still nothing). If you're looking for someone to run your boat, you might want to reserve the title of deckhand for yourself and offer your potential mentor a higher percentage than going plus five. Good luck!

actionalaska

2009-11-25 17:38:25

Farmerrancherprogramercyberneticmilitary,

It sounds to me like your past work history makes you exactly the kind of person that would take to trolling. I got the mixture of advice from the old salts too when Ifirst started. Their advice is certainly to be heeded and listened to, there is no replacement in the world for experience, however, the most experienced and successful troller had a rookie year to get to where they are now. So go for it. Here's a bit of info from my point of view.

I would tell you this about trolling: Get in because you enjoy fishing and being your own boss, you probably won't get rich in money, but the lifestyle is hard to beat when you have the right attitude and offers it's own rewards.

Buy a boat that is the most boat for what you can afford, but make sure it's something that you can probably sell pretty quickly, don't go too expensive at first or you will stack the deck against you, big payments are tough to face down when you are learning. Make sure the boat you buy is desireable to many, because you never know when your perfect boat is going to hit the market and you need to be able to sell it when the time comes. As for condition, they all take an unbelievable amount of maintenance, so stay away from a project boat, get something that is ready to go fishing.

Don't spend too much on gear, and make sure you buy gear based on what the fish want, not on what looks good to the fisherman, simpler is usually better in my experience, and ask the people sellling the gear what they think. It's easy to spend your profits at the gear store so be careful.

As far as where to find salmon, they have tails, and they use them, so they are where you find them, keep the gear wet, ALL THE TIME, don't get discouraged when it gets slow, and it will get slow.

And most importantly in my opinion, know that things are going to go wrong, you are going to break down at the worst time, you are going to hang up gear and lose it, you are going to make bad moves and leave a steady bite for no bite, just make sure that you NEVER run out of coffee, ALWAYS be prepared for the worst, and ALWAYS be polite to your fellow trollers out there, no matter how rude you think someone is being. The fleet is made up of Many trollers, and one bad apple can ruin the whole bushel if the attitude spreads.



Good luck, and looking forward to seeing a new guy on the drag.

BigBug

2010-01-30 04:06:54

ashadu, birdfeeder1, journey, actionalaska -



Thanks for the replies and useful information guys. Sorry it took me so long to get back to the site and reply... life has a habit of getting in the way.



LOL Birdfeeder1... Heck, if I got discouraged by every negative comment, I would have never gotten this far in life.



BB

joeman79

2010-12-02 01:50:24

Is Farmerrancherman in a Troller yet?

rookie

2010-12-03 02:26:00

Well as a noobie last year please invest in a lead mine i was nice enough to leave a few balls on some rock piles.. But as my wife said she work for the alaska marine hwy to pay for me to go fishing in the summer. all i can say is talk to other trollers and learn from there mistakes. craig ktn