26ft troller help
SteelheadStalker
2014-12-31 17:58:51
I bought Kats Toi, a 26ft fiberform inboard/outdrive with all the aluminum poles and structure...it has 4 turnbull gurdies and a Vickers pump...all the salmon gear has been removed from the boat and I'm in the process of re-installing...I don't know how the previous owners had it rigged for fishing and I"ve never fished commercially so I am kind of going into this blind...I need a kill box, thinking of building one on top of the engine cowl and the fish hold I don't know about but it don't have to be huge since its just a little day boat...I am in grants pass and plan to fish out of brookings to coos bay area when I get the boat together...I don't know how to rig the springs on the end of my poles or anything was hoping somebody close by could help for a charge? or pics would sure help me a ton, I spent hours online looking for small boats to get ideas from and they are scarce...I'm rigging the hay rack on it because they were what I had laying around and the old davits were made of iron and rusty as hell...I will connect each side with 8ft pipe welded across and squared up...any advice on rigging would be appreciated...I don't need to hear how small boats suck, obviously bigger is better, but this is what I could afford to get started and if it works out I'll upgrade but I need to learn first...PLEASE HELP ME!!!
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-02 02:41:52
The aluminum poles are 17ft long and I only have one pic of it rigged and ready to fish...I don't know where to rig stays or what to put on my poles...right now they are stripped...
SilverT
2015-01-02 07:23:01
thediverdude
2015-01-04 04:15:43
I fish the same boat in California. Can send some pics of my rig. My poles are 25 feet. I removed the flybridge . Obstructed view ahead. Will submit pics when I figure out hot
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-04 06:42:26
Thanks thediverdude!!!! Would really appreciate pics and SilverT thanks a ton!!! I"m downloading as I type
Robot
2015-01-04 20:49:47
For a fish hold you could just get an insulated fish tote. Basically a commercial grade cooler:
http://www.plasticfishcontainers.com/plastic-containers/ <--- a simple search on google turned this up. you might find them on craigslist.
They aren't cheap to start with but are perfect for what you need. I have a 'half' sized tote on my boat just to carry extra ice (9 Cu. ft.) I know a few other small boat trollers who do the same thing. This way you wouldn't have to build anything or mount anything to your boat. Just put it on deck and go. There are a lot of sizes available. I'm planning on buying a second half' tote to go on my deck for even more ice.
A kill bin or landing bin is pretty straight forward as well, Something that hold water and is fairly sturdy. Where I live the availability of such items that would suit my boat (small remember) is pretty limited so a day before I went out on my first trip in 2014 (and ever) I had exhausted every option that I thought viable. So i decided to go to the local garden shop just to see if anything there would work before I went to Walmart to get a cheap plastic packing tote which I figured, if I treated it right, would only last me a couple trips. And found a pond liner! It's about 34" x 26" x 10" deep. Worked well for my first season.
http://www.salmontrolling.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3175 <---- there are a couple pics of it on this post with fish in it.
Hope any of my ramblings helped :)
Rob
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-04 22:01:10
Thanks for the advice I'm definetly going to use a plastic fish tote for my hold and as for the kill bin I already built one out of wood that sits on top of the engine cowl...I just walked in from that project...I will fiberglass it all tomorrow...Should I put a drain in the box? I plan on putting a thru hull fitting in the bottom of the box and running a hose out so it can drain...also not going to use the hay rack as it will not allow me to fold everything down and travel down the road...selling the hayrack and going with basic aluminum pipe davits...this site is awesome and you guys make it that way! thanks a ton for the help its starting to come together!
Kelper
2015-01-04 23:34:12
Nice. The welder is about to get to work on my 23ft pacific skiff to rig it for power troll up here in Alaska. Super davits for me. Can't wait to kill some kings.
Robot
2015-01-05 06:16:15
Steelhead, yes, fish totes are they way to go for small boats.
The kill bin: Only other thing I can say (and I'm new too so take my word for what it is) is don't put a hole in the bottom... put one closer to the top, say... within the top 25% of the box? (anyone else with thoughts on this?) the reason for that would be is to have water for the fish to lay in inside your kill bin to run water over everything and though the gills while, also, cycling your water. If you had a through hole fitting, or something of the sort, you could attach a hose so you could run the bloody(hopefully ;) water over the side. Does that make sense?
Rob.
Robot
2015-01-05 06:19:14
P.S If your using pipe davits make them long. Spread your gear out as much as you can for kings.
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-05 22:17:51
Just to make sure I understand correctly, longer Davits so my 2 pulley/blocks are farther apart on the davit? Should my gurdies be spread out away from each other too? Right now I plan to have only 2" gap between the two...
Crawfish
2015-01-05 22:27:35
Look at GSI, Dock Street Brokers, Permit Master, Oregon Coast Maritime and Pacific Boat Brokers for pictures. Most pipe davits are built out of schedule 80 in case you hang a trap.
Crawfish
2015-01-05 22:30:49
Its fun designing your new fishing boat. I always liked setting them up.
Robot
2015-01-06 03:13:19
Steelhead, I guess I assumed that if you weren't going to install a hayrack you wouldn't have poles either. Therefore no way of spreading out your gear in the water because you wouldn't be able to have tag lines. So you would have to rely on the length of your 'pole davits' to do that job.
I guess I should ask first: are you going to have poles with no hayrack?
There is a boat in town here that has long 'pole davits' and no trolling poles. Seems to work better for smaller 'sport' and trailer able boats, Simply slide out of mounts and lay on the deck/back of truck when you go to get the boat out of the water. I'll try and get a picture of it for you tomorrow if they are still on the boat. Might make more sense to see.
Rob
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-06 04:52:15
I see what youre saying now...I have poles...17ft aluminum...not very long but will spread me out better than just davits or a hayrack....I love the hayrack and the whole idea of them but if I use the one I have (came off a bigger boat) I cant fold down my cross tree and poles and travel so I'm forced to use the simpler method...Do I need to make the pipe davits bend out overboard as well? or is it that big of a deal with me using poles? Also do I use the poles to put both lines out each side? Thanks Rob!!
Crawfish
2015-01-06 05:33:22
The davits need to be overboard enough to allow you to run your gear without the wire cutting or leads pounding into the side of your boat.
If you are going to fish much current or fish deep use a double shive set up as it's less work in the long run and may make your trolling wire last longer.
Crawfish
2015-01-06 05:36:36
You will most likely want to use the poles in conjunction with the davits or your gear will be a pile on top of itself and be more prone to tangles. Poles are used for spreading the gear. Davits are used for running the gear. Tag lines are what goes in between. Make sure you put a break away on your lead and on your tag line insulator.
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-06 15:44:10
when u say double shive set up do you mean having 4 pulleys/blocks on each davit arranged somewhat like a hayrack? If so then i'm pretty sure I know what u talking about if not then Im clueless haha...I'm going to use schedule 80 pipe...
Crawfish
2015-01-06 17:50:22
Four shives for each davit for two spool gurdies.
Six shives for each davit for three spool gurdies.
Crawfish
2015-01-06 17:56:12
When you build your davits put an eye on the end of the davit to attach a cable stay back up to your mast.
This way when you hang a trap you wont bend your davit. You will just rip the mast off. Just kidding! But seriously make sure you have a proper break away on your lead.
I just built a new set last year out of schedule 80 2" stainless pipe. It was a fun project.
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-06 23:02:28
Can I use schedule 80 aluminum pipe? Everything on the boat is aluminum so I was thinking of keeping it all the same
Also where's a good place to get some springs?
Crawfish
2015-01-07 16:12:12
I have not built any davits out of aluminum but I would think it should work with proper brackets.
As far as springs I would look at Pacific Net and Twine or Seattle Marine.
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-08 05:43:50
Also what weight of leads do I need to use? will I be using float boards?
Crawfish
2015-01-08 07:02:19
Typically for small boats 35# and 50# do the trick. You can use boards or crab pot buoys. Some guys use shears for inside /outside deep but the board style floats are what I prefer. You want to get the floats with shears so you can spread the gear out a little farther. I would suggest trying to get a spot as a deck hand for a couple of trips to see how it all works. Most of us learned from great teachers as the learning curve can be a little steep if you really want to compete. There is nothing wrong with setting up your own boat after you see how things works so you can optimize it as you see fit.
Jackson
2015-01-11 04:07:08
I've never thought about using buoys as float bags. I have a handful of those sitting around in storage and they're much cheaper. I wonder how they'd drag through the water and affect the tattle tales... we were picking up those plastic balls from Japan all summer too. Hmm. :)
Kelper
2015-01-11 18:59:16
Question for you gents..
Do some guys just run 2 single spool gurdies in smaller boats? How do they do compared to boats running 4 lines? Is it double the fish with 4 over 2?
gumpucky
2015-01-11 19:41:19
Rarely do my floats outfish or even match my mains but you can be fairly assured they will cover your expenses at the end of the season.
Crawfish
2015-01-12 02:15:05
My dog lines saved me this year. When everything is working right you should do between a 60/20/20 split and a 70/20/10 split.
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-12 02:42:19
what is the purpose of the float boards? I understand the shear method but what else do they do? do they actually stay on top and float a 35lb ball? are my heavies on the inside or the outside?
Hans2
2015-01-12 04:42:06
Float boards (or float bags, just a different name) run on the surface straight back from your tag lines. I run them outside of the deeps on my boat. They clip onto your wire at the desired depth after you've clipped on all of your leaders. Run the bags out to a desired distance behind three boat then attach your button to the line, which will stop in the donut and swing the floats out directly behind the point the tag attaches to your pole. You can get offset float bags as well, which will shear the float even farther away from the boat like a planer board.
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-20 16:10:01
I've been super busy at work out here in the cold on this boat and this is what I've come up with so far...After talking to several local fabricators that seemed uninterested or knew nothing about boats or fishing, not to mention EXPENSIVE!!! I decided to save myself a few bucks and bought a pipe bender and went to work on it myself... Did the davits out of galvanized pipe...today I'll be working on plates to mount my gurdies on...need to buy springs and set up the chains and tag lines then my poles will be done...by the way cross tree and poles are aluminum
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-20 16:14:47
Does it work to just have shears on my lines but not float bags/boards? them suckers are spendy and I've never seen one up close so don't know if I can build one or not... I was thinking of a plate of stainless bent to sheer out...I would attach it to the eye of my cannonball then my breakaway cord that attached to my mainline...wanted advice if this works or am I going to have to come up with floats?
Crawfish
2015-01-20 16:42:46
Good job. You might put an eye on your davit and stay it back to the mast. As far as the shears they are incorporated into the floats, the way they clip on the line in relation to to the float position is what causes them to shear. You can make line shears either surface or sub surface,maybe someone else has a picture of the different styles? The stainless plate bent at the base will work, trouble with that style is the gear hangs back further while trolling. Which is good and bad depending on what you are trying to achieve for example if you are fishing 50 stops the sub surface shear will have your line hanging way back but if your only fishing 7 stops no big deal. Get the floats if you can.
Hans2
2015-01-20 16:56:16
Looks real good.
Since your poles are a little on the short side, my guess is you will probably need to run the float bags to get separation on your gear to avoid tangles. You might be able to get away with running really heavy leads on your deeps and really light leads on your shear lines, but you'd be gambling those light leads wouldn't get pushed around too much trolling through tide rips and end up with a big knot under your boat (don't ask me how I know about that...).
You are right, the prefab float bags are pricey - but they are pretty simple things and since you're obviously mechanically inclined I'd bet you could build a set out of a sheet of sturdy closed cell foam, brass rod and bits of brass hardware, and some fiberglass. With help from a pro, I rebuilt one of the ones I used this year and it worked great all year. You could build some adjustable shear into the design so they'll carry farther away than the tips of your poles would let them go otherwise.
That my $.02, anyway.
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-20 17:56:28
Thanks guys so if i use float bags should i run them shearing outside with 35lb lead and 50 lb leads inside?
Hans2
2015-01-20 18:10:04
That's the combo I run. Got all the gear separation I needed 99% of the time. My beam is 11 ft, and my deep tag lines are 7 feet (horizontally) out from the gunnel, giving me a total separation of 25 feet between the deeps. That worked well with my 50#'s down to 50 fathoms. I also like having the floats out on the tips, since it spreads them out even farther way back there which helped keep things kosher when I had to make a sharp turn.
Scotthmt
2015-01-20 18:44:06
I run 50's on my heavies on my tips and 30's on my floats on the inside. I also use planer boards or shears or whatever you want to call them on my heavies by the weight to kick them out a bit more. I'll probably move to 35's this year. In shallow water, 10-15fa I use 30's and 25's. I don't know how you would get away running 4 wires on a boat that size without float boards. My float boards are shearing too, I can snap some detailed pics if you need. Where to run your heavies and floats on what position on the stick is matter of preference but I think most guys do the opposite of what I do.
As far as your hydraulic question goes my system is set up - reservoir to pump to flow control (one port returns to reservoir after being filtered) to stb gurdy to port gurdy to filter to reservoir.
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-20 19:53:42
gurdies too close to davits? haven't mounted yet have to run to hardware store for the stainless just hoping for input by the time I get back...trying to keep them under the davit while still giving me room for adjustment later if need be...I'm hoping that I only have to bolt down the gurdies once and then line everything else up on the davit according to the position of the gurdy...
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-23 05:47:15
Another few pics of my progress this week...taking off tomorrow for crabfest in brookings for the weekend but will get back to it monday
Crawfish
2015-01-27 04:52:32
Don't forget to take a good look at the trailer and axles. If the axles look questionable replace them, they can and will break on you with out warning. If needed, Pacific trailers is a good place to go for competitive trailer parts prices.
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-27 05:09:59
Right on thanks for the tip, i move manufactured homes right now as profession so i definitely know what u mean about going out with no warning, hubs, tires, spindles, u name it and ive had it happen to me haha im real careful with my trailers and keep sharp corners to a minimum on 3 to 6 axle trailers so my hubs and spindles dont get tweaked on too hard
Crawfish
2015-01-29 22:30:16
Got any extra MH axles and tires? I need about four axles and 8 tires.
SteelheadStalker
2015-01-30 00:30:05
Ya i do i keep them in chico but i can bring them back up north if ya need...i get 50 bucks a piece for brand new tires and 75 an axle
Crawfish
2015-01-30 21:57:18
Chico?
Wow thats a haul. I got some sourced so I am good.
Thanks though.