New power troller looking for advice
mattakfish
2012-11-17 17:12:07
Hi all. I have been a weekend hand troller for the past several years in SE and am now making the leap to power. I will be closing on my new vessel within a couple weeks and just located and entered into an agreement for a permit.
The move is thrilling, scary, and overwhelming all at the same time. I plan on running the boat close to town on weekends up to this June, when I am free to fish full-time through mid-august.
The boat itself is pretty turnkey, but I still need a variety of gear. I've gotten lots of great advice from the local guys I know, but thought I'd join the forum to hear from others around the region and share my experiences. Any advice is welcome. Here are a few of the things I'm wondering about:
-I'd love to hear people's thoughts on Coastal Explorer versus Nobeltec.
-I am torn on whether to hire a deckhand for my first season since I will be figuring out a lot of things for the first time and I'm not sure a job on my boat will be worthwhile moneywise. I thought about offering a deal where the deckhand would get a flat amount guaranteed or 12% of gross, whichever turns out to be more. Not sure how much would be reasonable for a flat amount for a green deckhand. Or, I could just brave it on my own. Any thoughts?
-Lots of gear questions of course......At this point, I plan to buy an assortment of flashers, spoons, hoochies and hooks. I'd like to get set up for dogs as well as kings and cohos. Any particular styles I should make sure to pick up? How much gear is enough? I think I know the answer to that last question already.....you never have enough gear!
Anyway, I'd love to hear any advice you may care to offer, whether you have 50 years in the business or are relatively new. Thanks!
khaos
2012-11-17 23:43:23
What town are you running out of?
We have forum members all up and down our coast, and it will help us advise if we know where you plan on fishing.
As far as deckhands, you can almost always find a kid that just wants to fish and learn. We all start out like that, anything to get out on the water and chase fish. If you can't pay him much, he'll probably move on to the next offer, but I doubt there will be hard feelings as long as you are up front with him (or her).
Deckhands love fishing as much as their captains most of the time, and it isn't all about the money.
There are some very experienced trollers on this forum that can help you with specifics. Feel free to ask and you will usually get an honest reply. Not everyone will share, but that is understandable too. Overall, this forum is very useful for learning tricks of the trade, things to watch out for, good stories, trending techniques, and just good entertainment on the topics that we all so enjoy.
Let us know how you are doing and if we can help. On winter days we like to chat about how things are going or what we learned from the past season.
mattakfish
2012-11-17 23:52:56
I'm out of Petersburg and thanks for asking. I hope to start winter fishing on the new boat by mid December (Unfortunately, I'm limited to the weekends until June)
I've been checking out the forum for a while. It's a great resource.
Abundance
2012-11-18 00:27:22
Maybe when you close the deal, you could tell us the name of the boat? I'd like to be able to recognize it these coming seasons. Having hand trolled for a few seasons, you likely know most of the basics. It is a good idea to start out in the winter. You wont make any money, but because the stakes are low, you can afford to make a number of mistakes learning the ropes that you couldn't get by with in the summer rush. Better to learn how to work the power gurdies at one or two fish a day than with one or two hundred. As to gear, I personally began with just enough to get by (and sometimes not), and have built up from there for the last six years. You likely know what works for salmon already. They might not work as well for you power trolling, but they should do well enough to start. I am glad that I never hired a deckhand for the first five seasons. I learned how to do everything from icing to engine work, and didn't have to worry about keeping somebody else alive while I was struggling learning how to survive myself. I also felt free to take time off explore the hundreds of remote fjords and mountains that I visited in the first couple of years of trolling. With another guy on board, I feel compelled to work for some reason. Your the best judge of your own situation though. As to chartplotters, I've used Tiki nav, Maptech, Nobeltech, and SeaClear. I also use Marine Navigator on my Android cell phone. All will show you where you are at on a chart, where you are going and how fast you are getting there. I liked Maptech the best, but a new program of that will run $500. SeaClear is nice, because it is a free download. I have the complete charts of U.S. water on CD from Managing the Waterways.
mattakfish
2012-11-18 00:42:15
I think its OK to say I am buying the F/V Aurora - a 40 foot snobal w/671 jimmy. It's got three station hydraulic steering with Naud controls, a nice hayrack and a set of 2 spool hasbras. I like what you said about starting out alone. That's how I feel as well...I want to figure all this out for myself before I take on the responsibility of keeping another person safe. At the same time, I've also been told that if I find the right deckhand, it should add to the safety factor and make my operation more efficient and, hopefully, profitable. I don't know.......
charger
2012-11-18 02:30:57
I used Nobelteck for a couple years, It was an old edition, real old, charts outdated. Replaced laptop and under advice from tender skipper went to Costal Exployer, the price is cheap, free updates for a year, comes with all nav charts from Alaska to California. Down falls, they don't yet have interface to sounder to map/update bottom contour,or three dimensional bottom. The program requires a non-prolific driver. From what I here they were too cheap to buy the licence for prolific driver. I really like mine, easy to plot and save multi waypoint courses, hotspots. On crew, I'm playing the devels advocate it depends it you plan on old man fishing or going full boar. The season is short I power troll from dawn to dusk, very long days in S.E. did it by myself my first year, after 3-4 weeks hard to climb in and out of the rack. I resemble the old man. I recommend get someone, green horn 8-10 % off the top, seasoned 12-15 %, after a couple years, and he changes oil, and can read your mind 20 % to keep him. Usually by yourself when you get those 100 to 150 coho days compared to with a puller will share the load and make them 250 - 350 days. It's all in the math. The quicker you can clean the lines, bleed, clean, and Ice, quicker you can repeat, more money. It's amazing how much better you feel at the end of the day when you have someone to share the load, driving crowded drags(winter line), wheel watch, icing, cleaning deck, shovel ice on and on. Your still burning the same fuel, cooking a little larger meal. Don't forget crew insurance don't leave the dock without it, if you do your crew might be the only one getting rich. What is the going rate on a hook in the eye? $100,000.00? As for gear, SPOON-BUCKET check out your neighbors, everyone has their own colors, sizes and leader lengthes. I collect used Mannites spoons at garage sales, strip-em, or lightly sandblast, then repaint with lure paint. Their good as new but better, lots of colors to choose from, gets me off the couch in the winter. Its kinda like tieing flys, lots of pride when the lines fill up using my creation. I wish you all the luck in your new endeavor, Fair winds and following seas.
tkbluefin
2012-11-19 05:32:48
During my first year in SE, I fished by myself and had a deckhand for 50% of the time. If you want to take it easy...by yourself is
good. However, I personally like to fish hard...the dawn to dust routine. It is very easy to run yourself into the ground. ..I have a hard
time stringing multiple 100-150 fish days in a row...that's me but others might be much more efficient. With a great deckhand last year
it was reasonable to string 8 200+ coho days in a row and still get up at the crack of dawn. I would recommend getting a deckhand. I am
optimistic about next year. There were many small coho at the end of the year and I think next year might be very good. It's a short summer
season...so maximize your revenue while you can. Crew insurance is about $500 per month but a necessity. You also might want to look
into joining the SPC. Good luck.
Kodiakrain
2013-02-02 09:27:38
I'm curious about this one,...my first post here,
in the "Still lookin into it," phase of potential Power Trolling
Just one question to add, tkbluefin,..."what is the SPC,?"
imagining it is a Troller Organization of some sorts ?
Well, one more question, as to how much gear,...anybody have a number, (for budgeting the initial cost of start-up)
how many rigs,...spoons, etc. do you carry, to be a realistic, "Old Man Style," Troller ?
afteryou
2013-02-02 17:37:01
with a new boat and new gear I think having somebody on the boat with you would be a good idea. Plus don't forget there is supposed to be lots of humpys this year. Don't write them off they can be quite profitable if you can move through them fast enough. They are also very easy to catch, just go slow, run some kind of flasher and put a hook behind it and you'll catch all you can handle. If you want to get fancy tie a little bit of yarn around the hook. If you want to get really fancy use a bug or a hoochie. :mrgreen:
On a side note you may think about adding mullions to the center of your front windows or maybe plexy covers. Congrats on the new boat and permit. I remember that time. It was a pretty cool feeling. :D
mydona
2013-02-02 17:51:08
Gear- well min would be troll at 20 fms with 2 fm spreads = 11 hooks/line x 4. x's the lost gear/wk,day. I agree about the experienced crew worth an extra % pay
SCP? Seafood Producers Cooperative; http://www.spcsales.com/index.cfm
Salty
2013-02-02 18:19:52
Acronyms are a unique language of their own. Here are a few commonly used here:
SPC: Seafood Producers Co-operative,
ATA: Alaska Trollers Association,
CTA: Chum Trollers Association,
ALFA: Alaska Longline Fisherman's Association,
NSRAA: Northern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association,
SSRAA: Southern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association,
USAG: United Southeast Alaska Gillnetters,
SEAS: Southeast Alaska Seiners,
SSS: Sitka Sound Seafoods,
NPFMC: North Pacific Fisheries Management Council:
BOF: Alaska Board of Fisheries,
@#$%&*: Trawlers,
ASMI: Alaska Seafood Marketing Institute,
UFA: United Fishermen of Alaska,
AC: Advisory Committee, there are 83 community Fish & Game advisory committees in the State of Alaska,
AP: Advisory Panel to the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council,
IPHC: International Pacific Halibut Commission,
ADF&G: Alaska Department of Fish & Game,
IFQ: Individual Fishing Quota, also referred to as Quota Shares (QS) or in BC sometimes as IQ, individual quota,
CFEC: Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission,
XIP: Excursion Inlet Packing, which is part of Ocean Beauty,
SEAGO: Southeast Alaska Guides Organization.
Enough for now. I once prepared a whole power point for a fisheries class on fisheries acronyms in Alaska. It can go on for pages.
Salty
2013-02-02 18:27:26
So, Mydona, I am trying to figure out how to get 13 spreads on twenty fathoms of wire with 2 fathom marks?
Which brings up this by-line,
Pretty much describes my trolling career. And then I got old and confusion entered the picture.
After 40 years of marriage I would amend this to: "If he thinks she doesn't know everything.......he knows nothing yet, as he ought to know."
afteryou
2013-02-02 18:37:03
"After 40 years of marriage I would amend this to: If he thinks she doesn't know everything.......he knows nothing yet, as he ought to know."
Love it ! :lol:
mydona
2013-02-02 18:40:03
13, well 1 on top 1 on the lead and not to forget the whiskey line :lol: . I may have miss counted but I start most (IMO) "Well, I don't, and I ain't sayin' but I do know this" can give me a little wiggle room
afteryou
2013-02-02 18:42:24
My wife just said I "don't know nothing yet" :D
Kodiakrain
2013-02-02 21:00:41
Enough for now. I once prepared a whole power point for a fisheries class on fisheries acronyms in Alaska. It can go on for pages.
I did start out in Southern SE, out of Ward Cove, deckhand on a Seiner/Longliner,...
the Ocean Queen, (I think it's the Viking Maid now)
but only fished Salmon for three years til '86
Now, with Aquaculture Associations, specific fish target Associations,...it's gettin' complicated
Thanks for these Salty
This my favorite, tho
Journey
2013-02-02 21:02:22
Do you have any friends who might be interested in a two week vacation? Those make good deckhands when you're not sure if you need/can afford one. Paying for food and some/all of their travel costs is a good trade for a working vacation for many people. You get the added safty of having a second set of hands when things go wrong, and you discover how much you really
Salty
2013-02-02 23:09:07
It would be nice to have a like symbol here. I like Journey's post.
Has worked for me. After my boys moved on (only to return off and on) I changed my deckhand philosophy from one of the same hands all season to rotating friends and relatives through. With few exceptions it has worked out wonderfully. I like hearing fresh stories and dealing with enthusiasm.
Salty
2013-02-02 23:32:04
I was thinking about this. When I first started power trolling I took my family. It was a relative disaster dealing with sea sickness, a broken shaft off of Omaney, and my inadequacies, even though I had been trolling and fishing my whole life. The second season I went by myself for most of the season. I loved it and by the time I started taking the family again a few years later it was a much better experience for all of us.
Since I have aged and had other problems to deal with I take crew most of the time when production might be involved as I can't catch, clean, slush, and unload 200 coho a day, day after day, like I could years ago. Not that I ever caught that many day after day, but I could have handled it if I did. And, believe it or not, I had a few lucky stretches of production years ago. During the October/November and March/April seasons I mostly go by myself and love the peace that running a troller in SE Alaska by yourself away from the pack brings.
The thing to remember is that every crewmember is totally unique and while I have certain standards for the way we run the gear and an absolute safety first philosophy, I usually adapt to the strengths and weaknesses of the crewmember and let them flourish. For example: my mother loved running the drag and working gear but hated cleaning fish and scrubbing the deck. My wife absolutely hates steering but loves cleaning fish and keeping the deck clean as a whistle. So, I adjusted.
mattakfish
2013-02-03 19:00:14
I have arranged (tentatively) for a relative to come up and fish with me for a month and a half. I plan to get them a ticket and pay them a regular crew share. They have no experience on boats, but they've always wanted to come up and stay for more than just a vacation.They may have to back-out depending on their job situation at home but it looks like they hope to make it. They are not expecting to make a mint....they are mainly interested in the experience. I gave them a rundown of the physical risks and economic uncertainties involved.
I wasn't sure I wanted to be responsible for another person on the boat while I figured everything else out......but I think they'll be capable and dependable.
Thanks again for all the advice. I've said it before, but I'll say it again....this forum is a wealth of information and I am very encouraged at how friendly and helpful so many people in the fleet have been (on-line and off)
mattakfish
2013-02-03 19:09:36
By the way, regarding safety-first, I've decided to make pfd's mandatory for me and any crew while on deck. I purchased mustang hydrostatic-inflator vests w/harness for us. Expensive, but I've used mine every trip since I got it. At first I thought it would get in the way, but after a while, I forgot I was wearing it to the point that I even kept it on even in the wheelhouse! The only issue is that there is a manual inflator tab that hangs off one side and could get hung up on stray lines......I think i will be able to fix that with some quick-release vecro.
Taking the AMSEA drill instructor course and getting a CG safety exam next weekend!
Salty
2013-02-03 19:32:23
I took the AMSEA drill instructor course soon after they started offering them. Good stuff.
Another thing to think about it, even though I have not got around to it, is having a waterproof hand held VHF or cell phone or both on you. That way if you fall overboard you can call for help. In my lifetime I am sure some guys would have made it if they could have called for help.
Thinking forward it might helpful eventually to have a hand held waterproof wireless controller for your autopilot and throttle/clutch with you too. Then you could steer the boat back to you. Then in my case I would need a wireless controller for the winch and boom so I could lower a line over to hoist my carcass back onto the boat.
Thorne Isl.
2013-02-03 22:42:09
Once and Future
2013-02-04 01:11:37
Now those two previous suggestions are worth their devices' weight in gold. I am going to act on that! Isn't it amazing that this is something so obvious and sensible and yet I didn't think of it on my own. Beauty of a forum! I was just visualizing again today what it would look like if I went overboard fishing alone and had to watch the stern of my boat slowly trolling away from me (at about the speed of sound)...
lone eagle
2013-02-04 01:32:45
My first year in trolling that actually happened twice, but on the bright side I haven't heard of any since. I know that's definitely not the way I want to go...
Abundance
2013-02-04 01:55:55
My Dad tells me the story of a guy he knew who fell overboard in Cross Sound. He managed to grab ahold of his floatbag and strap himself to it with his belt. He stayed that way until his boat ran on the beach and people took notice. It was too late and he died of exposure on the way back to town. A waterproof radio or an engine kill switch might have saved him. I have a couple of nice noninvasive life jackets on board and am getting a lot more obsessive about using them since I got a friends son as a deckhand this summer. Whether I make it or not doesn't seem as bad as having to tell my friend that I turned around and his kid wasn't on deck anymore.
Once and Future
2013-02-04 03:54:34
Even with the kill switch, imagine how hard it would be to catch back up to the boat with any current, wind, or waves.
Journey
2013-02-04 06:04:10
AMSEA had some brochures for a wireless kill switch. If the device becomes submerged, or if the remote gets a certain distance from the boat, the engine dies and an alarm sounds. The pamphlet also said you could strap one on to your kids to keep track of them at the beach. :) I don't remember the company.
Kelper
2013-02-04 06:12:52
Pretty good stuff guys. I fish by myself, so this has always been in the back of my mind. So do guys ever tow rafts or anything like that when fishing solo?
Kodiakrain
2013-02-04 08:02:42
Another thing to think about it, even though I have not got around to it, is having a waterproof hand held VHF or cell phone or both on you. That way if you fall overboard you can call for help. In my lifetime I am sure some guys would have made it if they could have called for help.
Thinking forward it might helpful eventually to have a hand held waterproof wireless controller for your autopilot and throttle/clutch with you too. Then you could steer the boat back to you. Then in my case I would need a wireless controller for the winch and boom so I could lower a line over to hoist my carcass back onto the boat.
That's a great concept,...the Remote Autopilot Controller, in Waterproof, attached to your vest,...Brilliant
I like the idea of the SOSpenders, but then if fishing alone, I've thought, wouldn't that just prolong the despair ??
and as for the average Crewmans, "Level of Competence" to actually steer around and pick me up, without running me over,... Well,..
I've opted for skipping all that, and Just Not Fall Over,...tho Yes, I do realize that is a bit idealistic
I had a Brand New Waterproof VHF, sitting in it's cradle, right there on the dash,...fully charged, and was one of the last things I remember seeing
as I dealt with all that is happening when losing a boat to a storm once,...
I looked right at that VHF, and never thought of it again, until off the boat, in a raft, drifting in Bad November Weather
was a long time before the CG found me on the EPIRB signal,...and I did think of that Waterproof VHF a lot during that time
"Shoulda had that ziptied to my suit somehow,...cause sitting in that cradle, was a discouraging thought
Salty
2013-02-04 18:47:05
When I used to do a radio interview show I had the opportunity to interview CG pilots and rescue swimmers who were involved in rescues. There is at least something right in this country when somehow those kind of people end up in positions to save our sorry asses.
One time after the interview I was visiting with one of them and he mentioned how nice it was in one case when the guy could talk them right in with the hand held.
Think of those guys that went overboard off of Kruzof last year where one guy ended up on Pt. Amelia and the other one was in a tote. With hand held VHF's they could have talked the CG or other vessels right in on em.
They have all kinds of waterproof containers for various cell phones. I think I will get one.
This whole forum experience would be more than worth it if through our posts here one fisherman is saved or helped to survive.
Thorne Isl.
2013-02-04 19:21:11
We should not have to lose people fishing. Education and implementation of the knowledge through drills even alone, can help one make it hopefully through the experience.
Amsea drill conductor course is good. You get to go out in the bay/harbor and experience how to, real time. Ever have to right a survival raft? Jump off a vessel in a survival suit? It is a interesting course and I recommend the course to all.
mattakfish
2013-02-05 04:08:08
I've carried a small standard horizon submersible vhf on me ever since I started hand trolling. I keep it on my belt or in a pocket with a lanyard clipped to whatever attachment point I have on my clothing.... (belt loop, button hole, d-ring etc) It clips perfectly to my mustang vest. It was not expensive ($100) and it will at least give you a chance to call for help. The lanyard is important because you are likely to have trouble holding on to it after a while in the water. A floating submersible would be even better! Also, the name of the company that makes the remote kill switch is autotether. I looked into it. Looks great but from what I can tell, you'd have to have one of those standard red kill buttons (like on outboards, where it cuts the engine when you pull out the emergency lanyard) For an old engine with old controls like mine (671....you pull a string to kill the fuel), I would have to install an electric kill switch and rig it up with a relay that kills the fuel when its activated. I think it could work. I think they also make one that's just an alarm. You wear the unit on your belt, and an alarm goes off on the boat if you fall overboard......but you'd need to have someone else on the boat to hear it and help, of course.