joeman79
2011-04-08 23:30:32
In researching trollers for sale I see there are several different Diesel Engines in the boats. I know everyone has an opinion and suggestion, but for a guy starting out looking for an older boat what would be your suggestion and possibly a reason behind your reccommendation. The boat I was on I believe had a 3 Cyl. GM. Ran great but don't see many boats listed with that particular motor. Several GM 653, any comments would be great.
ericv
2011-04-09 08:03:42
Joeman79,
Guess I'll jump in on this one. The boat you were on may have had a 371 Detroit in her. You are right, there are a lot of opinions out there on what type of main is good. The trend for those who can afford it is towards the Tier 2 diesel engines that are quiet, efficient and a bit pricey, but often the fuel savings pay for themselves. With many older trollers, Detroits were common and still are, be it 371's, 471's 671's or the 53 series like the 3-53, 4-53 and a few 6-53's. Here's my deal, our troller has a 4-53 (non-turbo) otherwise known as a "screamin jimmy". Without good sound proofing that engine will get quieter each year (meaning you are getting deafer than a post) but I love that engine and here's why.
Most older Detroits were built with abuse in mind. They were purposely designed to be simple, bombproof and most importantly - get you home. Be it a 71 series or 53 series, parts are damn cheap, plentiful in many an isolated villages and ports and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to repair. I've known many a fisherman that has 10, 15 and even 20 thousand hours on these engines. They change fluids and filters religiously, have it tuned up now and then and keep their fuel clean. There's a reason why these engines were/are used by the logging, military and fishing industries. They want something a knucklehead can run and not break. Yes they smoke, yes they are loud, and yes they can slobber all over themselves (with oil) but they just keep on running. There are stories of trollers limping home with a Detroit with a shattered piston bashing inside or a rebuild gone wrong that ran forever.
The 4-53 I have has averaged 1.0 to 1.3 gph overall running (6 knots) and trolling, hour meter stopped at 5900hrs maybe a decade or so ago, she'll never ever rust because of her drooling and slobbering of oil on her case but knock on wood, it has served me well. I buy stock in absorbent pads (I call 'em Detroit Diapers). It is rated to top out a 2800rpm but I run it at 15 to 1700 rpm and it is happy. It has a Borg Warner Velvet Drive behind her which if maintained is knick-named the "rock crusher". Just a week or so ago there was a running take out 4-53 with a Borg Warner in town for $750.00 Parts alone made it a worthwhile investment for someone, sadly not me.
What I'm trying to say in a long winded way is that Detroits, especially those smaller than a 671 are fuel efficient, cheap on parts, labor and you could have a fully reconditioned one with tranny installed for 1/4 to 1/2 the price some guy pays on a high speed, outdrive diesel that won't hold a candle to the Detroit in longevity. If you're a part timer like me and/or living on a shoe string, Detroit is your engine. Not as eco-friendly or quiet, but dollar for dollar, damn fine engines. When I was looking to buy the New Hope, I was bit hesitant about the main being a 4-53. I've spent a lot of time around boom-boats and skidders that screamed bloody murder with them. It was the noise I was concerned about. A good friend of mine who knows Detroits inside and out checked her out for me. When he heard my lame comment he simply said in his quiet, reserved way "It'll get you home". Enough said and so far, 8 years later, true.
Just my opinion on engines. There are many fine engines out there, especially the new breeds but a guy needs to assess all the factors unique to them. Good luck, maybe others on this forum will chime in, many of them have far greater knowledge than I.
Eric
mswkickdrum
2011-04-09 16:55:20
A "rock crusher" is a Muncie M22.
Salty
2011-04-10 01:56:47
I grew up over a 453 "jimmy" and had one in the I Gotta for the first 8 years. I put so much sound insulation in her that when I put in the John Deere you can hardly hear it. The 53 series was built for WW II to be easy to work on and practically indestructible. They are both. But as Eric pointed out they weep oil and are extremely noisy. But, since I grew up over one my loss of hearing kept me out of the draft and Vietnam.
I have over 20,000 hours on my Deere now and aside from oil, filter, and a few hose changes I haven't touched it. It is so quiet I can hardly hear it at trolling speed. There is seldom oil in the bilge, and if there is I am looking for the leak. The last one was discovered to be a can of hydraulic fluid stowed behind the hot water heater that had rusted out and only leaked when it rolled.
Every boat and engine combination is unique but I wouldn't go back to the 453.
joeman79
2011-04-10 13:28:56
Thanks for the replies and advice. I will keep in mind both the reliability and noise issues. But more than likely it will be what my budget will allow and if a boat with a Deere or an Isuzu is available for the same price as a GM I may go with the quieter model. But if I find a Boat I like with a GM I will probably not hesitate.
Thanks again
ericv
2011-04-11 17:25:14
mswkickdrum -
I stand corrected. The true "rock crusher" tranny was indeed the Muncie M22, had one in my balanced and blueprinted '68 442.
Chalk the error up to 4-53 noise, Delo 100 40wt exposure and cold coffee.
entropy
2011-04-13 06:22:22
John Deere's are great but good luck finding one in a starter boat. the trick with jimmys is not having to run them wide open. If you find a boat that can hit hull speed with a jimmy running at 13-1450 rpm with a prop that gives a decent load to the engine they will be easy to live with and pretty easy on fuel.
You might find a cheap boat that some old timer is selling that has a jimmy that has been well maintained. I'd be more worried about obsolete reduction gears and rotten hulls when looking at cheap starter boats.