becoming a hand troller fisherman
mgriffin
2010-12-16 00:40:25
I am 15 years old and I was never special or gifted, well except at fishing and repairing motors. My dad is from Portland, Oregon, and he lived on Kodiak Island in Alaska for awhile. I am from Galveston Island, Texas but we moved to Colorado. I hate being in the midwest. I was born on an Island, and I love the ocean. Not the flat brown prairie. It seems I was born to fish. I enjoy the smell of the ocean and the feel of a fish nibblin' at your bait. I even enjoy the rolling felling that you experience when your out on the open sea. I was born with saltwater flowing through my veins it seems. I came to these forums to ask your salty old asses (no offense, I think you guys are awesome) your opinions on me becoming a troller fishermen. I know it is hard work and there are 14 hour work days to look forward to, but I would almost enjoy it since it involves fishing. I was thinking about being a boat puller for about two years, but saving up my money so I could build my own boat, or buy one that is in good order. If I was going to go about building a hand troller boat, I would build a 20ft. double ender dory with a cabin and put a low rpm diesel engine like this Lister in it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxaX74yHlg&feature=related These listers are good long lasting reliable motors and are very fuel efficient. And yes, they still make them. Even though I am a kid, please give me your opinion on if it is a good idea to become a hand troller fisherman and eventually build my own boat. And where can I hand troll? I would prefer to troll off California. And please, don't tell me "you might want to consider going for another line of work" because I have thought of almost every career possible and I can't think of any I would actually enjoy, except being a troller fisherman. The way I look at it, I get paid doing what I like to do, which is fishing.
Hans2
2010-12-16 16:45:42
From a not-yet-salty, not-quite-old guy, hear this-
Don't sell yourself short, kid. Compared to most of what I've seen on website forums, you are leaps and bounds above your contemporaries as far as the writing is concerned. As far as the fishing, well... I'll let those that know far more than me comment on that. But I am pretty sure SE AK is the only way you'll even have a chance at breaking even at this game.
kalitan97828
2010-12-16 18:27:47
I applaud your passion and yes it is a great life. I started fishing with my own boat in 1962 so have a little credibility. Fishing is a business and like many lines of work you could go into you need a bucket full of skills. The first thing to consider is that the fishing season is not year around and you need some type of skill to sustain you in the winter. This could be a professional job like a teacher ( my route ) or a technical skill like a welder or mechanic. A second consideration is to gain business and accounting skills. I think that legally you will need to be 18 to work as a deckhand ( many of us started earlier ) and you do need to get experience. There are plenty of boats around but you will need a limited entry permit. I think a handtroll permit currently is about 10 grand. Many of us started as handtrollers. If you are a resident of Alaska the state has loan programs available to assist fishermen so guard your credit rating like it was your little sister. My wife says learn to cook and mend your clothes. Feel free to contact me with any questions. You are welcome to come and watch our operation as a guest and meet people. We are in Sitka and yes SE Alaska is God's country.
mgriffin
2010-12-16 21:05:13
I already know how to cook simple stuff like bacon and eggs, but I don't know how to mend my own clothes. It can't be too hard though. Also, it seems like a good idea to me to get a winter job as a mechanic. I have taken apart my 5hp antique briggs and stratton I got at a thrift store for $40, I took the cylinder head off, cleaned the carbon buildup out, ground the valves, and put it back together with a pair of plumber pliers. It started on the second pull and it still runs great. I know all of the basics of how diesel engines and gas engines work. I have a little experience with boats. I own a 12 foot aluminum fishing boat. I got it for $100 when I was 14. I had to wash all of the silt and crap that was in the bottom, but it had no leaks. I took it out on this big lake the first day I had it, and I have a powerful trolling motor for it which I got for free from a great friend of mine in Texas.
As for the gear I will need to purchase after I save the money I earned being a deckhand, how would a sou'wester hat, dark orange double bib pants with carharrt blue jeans under them, a regular long sleeve shirt, a long rain coat, and a pair of rubber boots work? And if I was going to build my own boat how would this: https://www.boatdesigns.com/18-Little-Hunk-power-fishing-dory/products/233/, and this Lister LT1: http://lister-petter.co.uk/products_browse.php?productByType=3 (the first engine at the top of the page) work for a troller boat? Just to let you know, I am going to put a small simple wheelhouse on the dory. I couldn't find any double ender dory designs, so this "little hunk" design seemed practical to me.
Hans2
2010-12-16 21:44:02
I am a little bit of a boat nut, so I can comment on that at least-
The Glen-L dory designs are planing dories, and ill suited to the match to the LT1 Lister. They do have a double-ender, here: [url=https://www.boatdesigns.com/26-Lucky-Pierre-St-Pierre-dory/products/539/][url]https://www.boatdesigns.com/26-Lucky-Pierre-St-Pierre-dory/products/539/
Far more suited to slow-speed diesel power. I would rethink the lister, perhaps - a water-cooled diesel would be far better for living in close proximity to. Even better yet, a small hp High-Thrust fourstroke gas outboard in a well in the middle of the boat (which is my set-up exactly).
Hans
mgriffin
2010-12-16 22:12:05
Oh yeah I see what you mean. It needs to be more of a displacement boat, whereas the little hunk dory I was looking at is more of a flat bottom boat. I saw the St. Pierre dory before and I thought it was a little too big, but now that I look at it it seems more well suiting as a live aboard fishing boat. The only problem with the water cooled diesel is it's hard to find a small relatively light one (under 200 lbs) that is a single cylinder slow speed diesel. I am definitely sticking with the slow speed single cylinder diesel though, because fuel efficiency is a big money saver nowadays, and I like the simplicity and reliability.
Hans2
2010-12-16 23:12:57
No need to worry about the weight differences between an air cooled and liquid cooled diesel when you go to a displacement boat.
Look at some of the handtrollers on the site here - many of the people you see year after year are running outboards. There's a really good reason for that - because they can. Moving fast from one area to the other is the handtroller's advantage. Guy that goes by the handle Yak2you2 is a HT guru. Go back thru and search his threads, among others - you'll learn a lot.
Another thing I would suggest, if it may, is make a quick stop on the "Donate" button above. It'll help the site owner out a bit, and I absolutely guarantee you that you'll glean far more in valueable advice out of participating in the forum than the amount you donate. I'm still relatively new here, and I know I've gotten my investment back tenfold.
rookie
2010-12-17 01:48:21
I would recommend is invest in good safety gear, and know how to use it. That water is cold right now ok last weekend i went fishing an at noon we had 1/4 inch of snow on the boat. Take a USCG Boating safety course what they teach you might save your life some day. craig
joeman79
2010-12-17 02:49:45
Save your money and buy a boat that someone like yourself is ready to sell because they want a Power Troller. Lots of boats for sale out there, check out the Boat Broker sites. You should also spend a summer on a power troller as a deck hand and learn firsthand the business, I am sure there would be a few guys here hire a gungho young man like you for a deckhand. And go to AK and troll and you won't wanna go anywhere else. In My opinion anyway.
I am doing the same thing you are and saving up to buy a Troller.
Wishing you a Merry Christmas and hope we both get our Christmas Wish Someday.
Joe
shakers
2010-12-17 06:45:05
Well, Young Man; Sounds like your on a good path. The life of a Fisherman is not an easy one but, I can't imagine doing anything else. You have a measure of youth on your side. Like others have said you need a wide range of skills and strong determination to survive. Learn all that you can while you are in school. Take classes in welding, mechanics, physics, electricity, food handling.
Learn to read and write well. The basic skills go along way in navigating the industry and process of become a fisherman. Spend as much time as you can sport fishing. Many of the behaviors of fish share a common themes. Read all that you can about fish and their habits.
Earn money and save it.
Don't be in too big of a hurry to take on your own boat, there is so much to learn. The more you can while being a crew member the better.
Of course there is much more, you are very wise to seek information. Many jump into the fishery and jump out in a short amount of time. There are so many factors to the successful operation, not all have the drive or determination to do it. Be not afraid of hard work.
Compared to most in the fleet I am fairly young and am learning all the time. No two days on the ocean are same, a famed novel once said.
Keep askin' good questions, there are many in the industry and on the forum who will help.
At least as a fisherman u will always have plenty of good fish to eat :)
Keep up the good work.
Akjob
2010-12-17 21:21:21
It's a long time till summer, you should also considering reading some books about fishing. Here's a list of a few fishing books I've really enjoyed:
1. Marilyn Jordan's book (don't recall the name), but i'm sure someone here can help.
2. Highliners, Breakers and Raiders by William McCloskey-these are about seining and other fisheries, but still good reads about fishing
3. Sitka Man by Al Brookman Sr. (Great old-timer stories about the trolling life in Sitka)
4. Following the Alaskan Dream
There are a bunch of others too, but any of these books can give you a sense of what the lifestyle is like, and you can probably find most at a library somewhere.
mgriffin
2010-12-17 23:53:18
Hans2: I would donate $20.00 if I even had a pay pal account, let alone money. I spent all of my money on my aluminum boat and my double barrel 12 gauge I use shoot ducks. I don't spend much time on the computer, unless it's freezing nuts cold outside, like it is right now, and plus I have to go to school at 6:00am every morning. I haven't even gotten a credit card yet, all the stuff I buy I buy with cash. And about the motor, I understand what you are saying about the high speed outboards getting you there faster, but I like reliability, something that will NEVER break down when you need it the most, and something that doesn't suck up fuel. The engine that I am going to put on my boat uses 0.172678317 gallons of diesel per hour, and it won't need much maintenance since it has 650 rpm, and it is water cooled. These engines have lasted 100,000 hours without an overhaul. Thanks for your advice.
Shakers: I have a B+ in Principles of Technology, a B+ in Invention and Design, and this next semester (I just finished finals today) I am taking Construction 1 and Principles of Technology again. I can't say I know how to weld, but my dad has a welder and he taught me the very basics. As for electronics, I learned some basic circuitry wiring in Principles of Technology.The mechanics part I am pretty good at already since I have been around my dad who is a good mechanic, and I have taken apart a four stroke gas engine and fixed it, then reassembled it. I am going to take engine repair next year because it sounds fun. All I know about food handling is that you wash your hands before handling food, and after you crap or piss wash before handling food, and wash after handling raw meat. Navigation should be simple, I read at a college level, and I am fairly good at writing. I sort of know how to use a GPS also.Thanks for your help!
Joeman79: Yeah I intend to spend one of my summers on a troller as the boat puller, after I get my first car anyway, so I can drive up to Alaska. I'm sure it will help me gain a lot of experience with what the job is like. I'm not sure about buying a troller boat though, because I have this perfectionist thing and it tells me to build my own boat and buy my own motor for my own boat so I know that it will be of the best quality materials since I literally built it from scratch. What I'm saying is if I'm going to spend 40+ grand on a boat, then I want to see how everything is built, you know quality control :).
rookie: The USCG boating safety course is something I will definitely look into. I understand it is a dangerous job and I will try my best to be safe while I am out on the open ocean. Thanks for the warning.
akjob: Thanks for telling me this. I will try to find those books in my local library next time I visit it. By the way, I am not planning on going to AK to be a deckhand until I am at least 17, which is two more years. My dad told me he would try to get me on the job he works at as a construction worker apprentice when I am 16. I can get a truck and an apartment out here and start saving money so I can go to Alaska over the summer and be a deckhand and get a little experience. Then I could come back out here, save more money, buy a trailer for my boat, build my boat, then when I'm about 19 or so I haul my boat up to Alaska, probably using it as a U-haul to put all of my clothes, my guns, a mini fridge, my fishing tackle, some dishes, a portable diesel stove a few books, and a cot in. Then, I could get a hand trolling license with the aid of a loan, and I would pay that off by trolling during the summer and working as a mechanic during the winter. I won't even have to get an apartment because I would live in the cabin of my boat.
The 26' Lucky Pierre dory that Hans2 mentioned before is suitable to all of my needs. Then I saw the 27' Jean Pierre, (http://www.boatdesigns.com/27-Jean-Pierre/products/915/) and it seemed even better than the Lucky Pierre since it has more cabin space, which I need since I am 6'2" tall and I am (hopefully not) still growing in height. The motor I am going to install on my boat is a JKson single cylinder diesel engine (at the top of the page) http://www.jksondieselengines.com/diesel-engines.html. It has 650 rpm, water cooled, 1432cc, 18:1 compression ratio, and 6hp. I know that that is low hp for a 27' boat, but it has a sh**load of torque at 650 rpm. I've heard that if you are skilled enough at operating an engine like this, you can cut the fuel off, and right as the piston is going to bounce down from it's own compression and stop completely, turn the fuel on and it will start in reverse. That shouldn't entirely eliminate the need for a transmission though, I need at least a neutral and drive gear box. So, what do the people with experience on what type of engine to use on what type of boat think about the combination of the 27' Jean Pierre and the JKson Listeroid for an inboard diesel engine? Also, where would you recommend that I get my gear from, like the hand crank gurdies, the poles, spinner baits, weights, and the line?
If you suggest a higher hp motor, then they have a 12 hp version with two cylinders and 650 rpm, second from the bottom of the same page the single cylinder engine is on. PS, this is going to be one helluva nostalgic boat when I finally build it! I can already hear the clunking sound the straight pipe will make!
kalitan97828
2010-12-18 00:59:35
I think you might want to go back and reread some of the advice passed on to you by some experienced people. As I read this thread I learned that there are lots of boats available, that the advantage to an outboard equipted boat is that you can fish one spot and rapidly move to another. ( A heavy wooden boat with a slow turning motor means a slow boat ) That a skill set is very desireable, that you need to pursue safety training and that you need to become an avid sport fisherman to learn about fish and fishing. There may be other jems in there but you will refine your dream with experience.
yak2you2
2010-12-18 05:29:51
It is inspiring to see a young man with so much gusto for fishing. An interesting thing about fishing, you don't have to pay to learn how. If they had courses in college, or a trade school it would cost you a fortune to become a journeyman fisherman. In real life though, that's not how it is. All you have to do is get a job as a crewhand, and get paid while you learn. Take advantage of that.
I started fishing as a gillnetter with my grandfather from the time I could walk. I got my own boat and permit, and thus it begun. I didn't start trolling until later in life and by then, I already had a boat. So, I never had the opportunity to start out trolling as a deckhand and learn from a pro. I had to figure trolling out for myself, and it cost me a lot of time and missed opportunity driving around watching others catch fish. There's a lot to learn from books and this forum, but there's much more to learn from watching. While your a crewman for a few years, save all you can so when your ready to jump in, you have some start up money.
Consider furthering your abilities as a mechanic, they go hand in hand with being a good fisherman, and it may provide you an opportunity for side money in your future. Consider a trade school for outboard and diesel mechanics. You don't have to make it your career choices, but it will give you something to fall back on, and you can fix your own boat.
As far as where to fish, use the various states your considering websites to get information on how their fisheries are doing, and how they stack up. California may be convenient, but it may not have the openings to allow you to make a living on.
Above all, keep sight of your goals, and you'll get there. Someone on here offered you the chance to go and watch, you should consider taking him up on it.
mgriffin
2010-12-18 20:11:01
Alright kalitan97828,thanks for your offer, I would be more than glad to go and watch how it's done and meet some people. I can't really go until I am 17 though, because I don't even have a car, a job, and I am not out of school yet. Until then, I plan on going to school and getting an education, and when I am 16, I plan on getting a job as a construction worker at my dad's job and buying a Chevy truck. Then, when I am 17, I plan on going to Alaska over the summer to watch your operation and see how it's done, and after that get a job as a deckhand in the same summer to get a little experience. I will come back to Colorado when summer ends so I can finish high school.
I am already an avid sport fisherman, I go fishing every chance I get. Last summer I fished every day of the week, and on Sundays when I got home from church I got out of my church clothes, put my blue jeans and my chest waders on, threw a tee shirt on, grabbed my rod and my tackle and went fishing for about 4-6 hours and I caught any where from 15-25 fish in that amount of time. I know how fish behave, what colors they go for, and I know that you can easily scare them away by making the smallest noise. I caught dozens of largemouth, bluegills, smallmouth, pumpkinseed, redears, and black crappies. I have watched how they behaved, like one time I was fishing on the shore and I saw this monster largemouth just sitting there waiting for something to come by. I angled my graphite rod so that the yellow feather jighead lure swam about 2 feet in front of it, and I twitched it a few times. He lunged for it, but stopped about 6 inches from it and ran. He has seen that bait before probably, since it is a really common bait used for catching largemouths. I never used that lure again in that lake. Another time I was fishing in the weeds with a flashy inline spinnerbait and I was casting it out about 75 feet and reeling it in fast, and my lure was about 20 feet offshore when I saw this silver flash and something struck my bait, and it ran with it so fast I could actually hear my line humming through the water. my rod was almost doubled over, and my rod was rated to break at 40lbs of stress. After it ran about 7 feet (that took about what seemed to me half a second) my line snapped like a hair. I was using 12lb test fishing line, and it kind of confused me how fast that fish snapped the line. The biggest fish I ever caught in that lake was an 8lb largemouth, and I thought that was as big as they come in Colorado. To be honest though, I never caught a salmon before. I think we have landlocked Kokanee down here though, in this lake that is about 10 miles from here called carter lake. The biggest fish we have down here are lake trout, they can get up to 100lbs and they live in this lake called horsetooth reservoir. Of course, they rarely get that big, and I've never fished in horsetooth reservoir.
So is it still a good idea to build the Jean Pierre? I can use an 80hp outboard instead of the slow speed diesel I mentioned a few times. If I 'm still working at the construction site when I am 18, then I could use my money to build the Jean Pierre, and buy a trailer and outboard for it. Then, I could haul it up to Alaska and get a loan for my HT license and pay it off by hand trolling with my boat. Does that sound like a plan?
yak2you2
2010-12-18 21:10:05
In a lot of cases, inflated construction costs has made it so you can't beat the price of buying a good used rig of some sort. I understand where your at with wanting to build your own how you like it though. This much I am a huge advocate of, whether you buy used or build new, it's a good idea to wire it yourself, so when something shorts out, (and it will), you'll know where everything is at.
Just do your pricing homework, and consider this. None of the boats your going to start out with are going to be your career boat. They will be stepping stones. You will always crave more room, ability to pack more fish, living quarters, seaworthyness, eventually a glass boat with a power troll permit, etc. So don't build or add anymore to them that is essential. You can spend 50,000 on a skiff if your not conservative, I've seen it done.
kalitan97828
2010-12-19 05:24:37
Let us know when you want to come up and we will reserve a bunk. My wife says you presently have a job and that is to make the most out of your high school education and graduate with the best grades and refrences you can. This shows a lot about your work ethic. It is great you are an avid sport fisherman--remember you are a sport fisherman and religously stick to the catch limits and regulations. You want a clean record. Getting a truck is not all that important as you cannot drive to SE Alaska. The state ferry leaves weekly out of Bellingham, Washington and a sleeping bag is all you need. There are always a group of young people on board sharing the solarium. It is about a four day trip. There is presently winter fishing taking place out of Sitka when the weather allows. It has been slow and the fish small but one fellow caught a 50 pounder the other day. At $7.75 a pound--well you do the math.
47.75
Salty
2010-12-19 19:28:41
Following the Alaskan Dream, my adventures trolling in SE Alaska by Marilyn Jordan George. I have some copies left. Send me a private message if you want one, but you should be able to get a copy to read through inter library loan.
Salty
2010-12-19 19:32:47
I have not caught a 50 pound dressed king in over 20 years and thousands of king salmon.
kalitan97828
2010-12-19 20:24:26
I have only caught two over 50 pounds in my career but the reliable report is that is was 50 pounds on the nose.
kalitan97828
2010-12-21 02:06:37
A former teacher on my staff when I was a High School Principal has authored a book intitiled Alaskan Troller. If you will send me your address via private post I will send you a copy. Also I was on Craigs List Seattle under boats and there was a small troller for sale there which might give you some ideas. I think it was for sale for about 12 K.
Carl
mgriffin
2010-12-23 03:02:19
Katlian
2010-12-23 04:24:21
I have been enjoying this thread. I feel that I would be remiss to not interject my economic view into the proposition of a life in fishing. I think a recipe for success is in order. Aside from the life that we all love, here is a plan for financial and lower stress success.
Step 1: get a job as a crewman on any troller
step 2: get a job as a crewman on a highliner troller
step 3: pay attention, learn how to troll.
When step three is accomplished, repeat steps 2 and 3 for good measure
step 4: skip hand trolling unless you have a flexible,high paying job with benefits and a retirement package.
step 5: get into power trolling
step 6: move quickly into either chum trolling of freezing. The other alternatives are successful only for the few, unreasonably talented fisherman.
step 7: build or buy your retirement vessel
a quote to support my recipe: "I do not know of very many ice trollers who make their entire living from trolling. I do know an awful lot of freezer trollers who make all of their income from trolling."
slr
slr